Episode 8 - The Hesitant Swiper

The Hesitant Swiper

Online dating after divorce can be intimidating, and many men and women over forty are hesitant to take the plunge.
This week we explore dating hesitation with my guest co-host T.H. Irwin of the popular divorce resource site the ExExperts and co-host of the exceptional podcast, Divorce, Etc.

T.H. and I hear and discuss the true stories of Holly and Liz as they share their intimate stories on deciding whether to online date.

This week’s Guest Co-Host

T.H. Irwin

founder: The ExExperts

TH Irwin and her partner and co-founder Jessica Klingbaum host the popular podcast, Divorce, etc. and have built an amazing community of resources for all things divorce on the web at The ExExperts.

Transcript:

Hoyt: 0:03
This is Behind The Swipe, the podcast that takes you inside the lives of real men and women over 40 who have taken the plunge into the Offen, Burkey, and sometimes exhilarating world of online dating. Each week, we explore new topics through the experiences and expectations of real online daters just like you. I'm your host, Hoyt Prisock. Join me as we peel back the one dimensional dating profiles to discover the real men and women behind the swipe. Welcome to this week's episode of Behind the Swipe. This week we're exploring the issue of hesitancy in online dating, particularly for men and women who perhaps have recently divorced and really would like to meet someone new, but are a bit intimidated by the thought of putting up a profile on one of the 147 online dating apps and sites. Today we'll hear from two women who share their concerns and anxieties about venturing into the unknown with online dating, first, we'll meet Holly Holly's in her early forties with two teenage boys at home. She's not opposed to online dating, but doesn't feel ready yet, to be honest. She preferred that God or the universe simply deliver a handsome and charming man to her door via U P Ss. Later in the show, we'll meet Liz. Liz's story is in two parts, the first of which is going to be around her anxieties and delays in getting online, and then later we'll hear how that experience went. So today I'm absolutely thrilled to be joined by t h Irwin, T h Irwin, and her partner Jessica Klingbaum Have, created ex experts, which is an online resource for women anticipating or going through or having gone through the divorce process and all of the complications around that. T h and Jessica also have an amazing podcast, called Divorce, et cetera, and they explore these issues every week. With a, guest on a different topic. So th I'm glad that you're with us today. Thank you for coming.

TH: 2:29
I am so excited to be here with you. I. You know, our, our purposes are similar in that we can make a difference based on what we've learned as life experts ourselves. So I'm excited to be here and let's, let's get on with this. I love it.

Hoyt: 2:47
Awesome. Well listen, before we do that, tell me a little bit more about ex experts and tell me about the podcast, divorce, et cetera.

TH: 2:54
So Jessica and I are best friends over 30 years. We met while she was still in college. Her husband and my then husband, the four of us were best friends. We did all the things together. Everything looked beautiful and awesome. And the pictures and our families, and us growing up. Basically together. and then 13 years into our marriages, we found out that our husbands were cheating on us covering for one another in long-term affairs. Now we were married to two very different men, even though they were best friends. So our divorces were very different, but we had each other through it all, and we didn't realize what a huge gift that was. Until we really started going through the motions of our divorces. I mean, we were each other's date for our first New Year's Eve. We had each other on the weekends with our kids. We had a lawyer meeting. We're chirping in each other's years. Did you think about college? Well, they're only four and two. Well, you better think about college so. There were no resources when we separated from our husbands over 15 years ago. Now I feel ancient, but now there is so much information out there for all of you guys. You are flooded with messages left and right and you also being watched between your phones and your drones and your, who the hell knows Alexa and whatever. It's a scary time to get a divorce, so we created the platform called Ex Experts. That's ex experts.com as a one-stop shop of all vetted, trustworthy information to help you if you're thinking about it, if you're in the thick of it, and right before the real work starts to get your life. Heading in a different direction and moving forward despite having a divorce and not carrying that as a burden, but as a superpower almost. And we are leading by example and our divorce, et cetera podcast. We interview the best of the best experts because we believe that education and support is what leads to empowerment. The more you know, the better your choices will be, and you are deciding your future. That of your kids. You don't wanna be like me relying on a$500 per hour lawyer to educate me. I would've liked to have been in a position of, you work for me. I kind of felt like I worked for her. So this is why we created this platform, this podcast, we are your girlfriends. Going through it all. We're not your lawyers. We're not your therapists. We're not your financial planners, but we are a hundred percent your girlfriends to the end.

Hoyt: 5:45
You know, I love that th and it sounds like what you're trying to do is to help women who, and men who are going through this, right, get the same kind of support that you and Jessica were able to provide for each other during that process. And I just think that's, That's awesome work and I commend both of you for that and encourage everybody in our audience to go check out divorce, et cetera, and the ex experts.com. So, so let's talk about this factor of hesitancy in jumping online. After a divorce, there's so many factors in here that, that play into this, and not the least of which is, you know, trust issues, right? You, you've come out of this relationship, you don't know who you are in relation to anyone else. So tell me a little bit about your personal experience with this.

TH: 6:38
So my husband was actually engaged to the woman he was in the long-term affair with before I found out the truth. So that just added a little cherry on top for me. So I was actually in a legitimate, emotionally abusive marriage. I was in one where gaslighting was every day. I was always walking on eggshells. I was a shell of a person, so as soon as I knew that I wasn't crazy and that I'm, I, this, there's no guilt here with me ending this marriage because he's the bad guy now. I really didn't know what I wanted. I just knew what I didn't want, and I think that my hesitancy was, am I going to attract somebody who's. Gonna treat me like that again, like I can't make this mistake again. So number one is fear. Fear of the unknown. The number two hesitancy was my kids, because now he's got this woman, he's moved here from the west coast only a month after we've separated. So their lives are complicated enough. Am I gonna complicate it more by dating? Which I did date secretly for as long as I could. Um, and the other thing that you just have to do trial and error, honestly, a little bit. I put myself out there, but I settled a lot at the beginning. I just wanted someone to tell me I was pretty, I just wanted someone to. Be interested in what I had to say. I was starved for so many basic human needs that I didn't even know until I started dating. So I would say you have nothing to lose in putting yourself out there. Go on the date. Who caress, you may never see him again. Or you might have a great night and have a great conversation and still not be interested. We call it the flex. You have to flex your new muscles, right? You have to try your new skills. Like do I even, how to flirt? Am I even a flirt? I don't even know what that means. So I would say just put yourself out there, but the hesitancy is real. Trust was certainly an issue, but honestly for me, I had such low self-esteem that I was really afraid that I was just gonna be stomped on again, and I, I just couldn't, I couldn't go back there again. So that was my primary reason for like, I don't know if this is a good idea.

Hoyt: 9:24
Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, thanks for sharing that story. I mean, you know, everybody needs to hear, I think the real experiences of people who have done that and come out the other side. What surprises me as I, and it shouldn't really surprise me, but it, it, it does sometimes in having these conversations with people that had every reason in the world lined up not to go online. And not only do they have a good experience with it, but they learn so much about themselves as that as

TH: 10:00
Absolutely. And if you have a friend doing it, like Jessica and I were doing it together. She actually did my hinge profile, but I had been in two relationships before. I'm the one I'm in now, and I met both guys on Match. And one was a two year and one was a five year. So you get what you put out there, okay? People meet you where you are. So if you are attracting less desirable people, you might need to do a little work and that's totally fine. Just be aware of it.'cause then you're gonna be disappointed all the time. And you know what, maybe I need to, you know, clean up some of my own stuff.

Hoyt: 10:43
Yeah,

TH: 10:43
And then, you know, I'll attract somebody who's at a higher level that I want to be at.

Hoyt: 10:50
that's great advice, dh. So earlier this week, I had an opportunity to meet a woman, named Holly, and Holly has not been online. She's only been divorced for a relatively short time. first I asked her about her circumstances and how she gets there. let's play that clip.

Holly: 11:13
so it was a shock. I was told that we were getting a divorce, about 20 months ago. he just decided, That he actually had never loved me and that he had married me because I was a safe choice. so yeah, that was the reality that he felt. And we were done. So we had done marriage counseling for three years, And that was the conclusion that was drawn,

Hoyt: 11:42
So i went on to ask holly whether she was ready to date again And how she felt about online dating

Holly: 11:49
I am ready. And you know, my joke is, if God dumps somebody on my lap, I'm not gonna say no at this point. So I'm definitely open to it. but I'm also not actively seeking it. you know, my focus has been on my kiddos. I actually was a stay-at-home mom for 16 and a half years. I'm just now starting back into the workforce, so, my focus at the moment is to establish a career but I'm also not willing. I, I'm not saying no, you know, it doesn't have to be, this is going before that. I am willing, I just have not wanted to spend the time yet, and so I haven't, you know, everybody I've talked to says it takes time, to establish the account and go through it and deal with that. So I just, that's not how I've wanted to spend my time to this point. Yeah, so I have friends and family members who have met and married spouses online and have good experiences. I also have a lot of close friends here in my area who feel like. They've done it for years and there's not yielded anything. So I, I think I have more close friends who have negative experiences than positive. just in terms of the pool of people that they're finding and, you know, that it ends up being a waste of time.

Hoyt: 13:08
So th all legitimate concerns, right? And she's saying, look, I'm open to this, but my life is not set up perfectly to allow me to put the time and effort into it. So what's your reaction to what Holly just said?

TH: 13:26
you can always make time for things that you wanna do. There's always a way. These are excuses and they're valid, but they are. And look, I remember when I separated people were coming up to me. Don't worry, you're so pretty. You'll find a nice guy. There'll be a good guy out there for you. Your goal. My goal in life is not to find a great guy. My goal in life is to be happy. Whatever that touches and makes me happy gets to join. And if a man is a part of it, great, and if a man is not a part of it, great. So I think that Holly, I commend her starting a job after being a stay-at-home mom. Listening to him say that stuff, it breaks my heart. You have two boys, but this is the clear reality. You are worth somebody's time and effort and you can decide if they're worth your time and effort. What we advise people to do is. Make time for you doing a social activity. Find something that you love. Like now we've got all these pinging pong tournament places here. We have golf, women's golf groups, we have mixers, we have travel groups, we have all these things. So think about what your interest is so it doesn't feel like you're dating, but you're going and finding something you love to do. And if you meet somebody there, Then they share that same interest and it's all part of doing for you. And they're kind of guilty by association. You know what I mean? And you might not meet the guy, but you might meet someone else who says, I've got a great guy for you. So I would just say, Holly, keep your mind open to meeting people. Nothing is a waste of your time unless you decide it's a waste of your time. Don't let other people put that into your head. I've had three successful online dating experiences. One is my current and forever, man. My brother met his wife online. My, uh, tons of people. It's what you put into it. It does take time, but if you have fun with it and you don't take it too seriously, it's not a waste of your time. You're just gonna learn.

Hoyt: 15:55
Yeah,

TH: 15:55
downside. What do you think?

Hoyt: 15:57
so t h first of all, I'd love her attitude, right? she's, I. In a difficult place in her life, readjusting to so much. And yet you can hear in her voice that she's got a positive optimism about this life that she's creating. And I love that.

TH: 16:18
Yep.

Hoyt: 16:19
I also worry though, that, you know, you, you heard her talk about, her friends having negative experiences. And, and I know you've seen this, and I've seen this a number of times where those voices start chirping at you that, that create the mindset for a negative experience. Right. And so how would you advise her on, partitioning that set of voices that define this scary negative. That she's embarking on.

TH: 16:54
I would, I would dig into it a little. If you said to me, th it's a nightmare. Don't even date. I would say, Hoyt. Why? What about it made it a nightmare? Did you like somebody who didn't like you? Did you just feel like you weren't getting good? Like dig a little deeper because it's usually about the person and not about the app. The apps wouldn't be in existence and there wouldn't be as many as there are if they weren't successful to some degree. So I think that you just. I think she should keep her open mind. I think she should surround herself with people who give her positive. Feedback and education. So yes, there, yes, there are a lot of work. A hundred percent true. Yes, you can get burned. A hundred percent true. Yes, you can find somebody great. A hundred percent true. Yes, you can learn, you can laugh. You can have a night out of your house and break up the routine, and you can also learn something. You know what? I don't want someone holding my hand across the street who I don't like, who I don't even know, don't touch me. I learned that pretty quickly. I ripped my hand away from this guy's poor guy. I was just holding my hand across the tree and I was like, don't hold my hand. I wasn't ready. How are you gonna know what you're ready for, Holly? If you don't put yourself out there so you can continue to grow. that's kind of my feeling.

Hoyt: 18:19
Oh, that's so, that's so true. So th I think it's an appropriate time. We're, we're gonna take a short break and then when we come back, we're gonna hear a very different story from two sides of that experience. I hope you're enjoying behind the swipe. It's been a true honor for me to hear from so many of you, how much you appreciate the work we're doing. But we need your help to spread the word and grow our audience. And there are two things that you can do right now. That will be so meaningful to us. First. Apple and Spotify rely heavily on listeners, ratings and reviews. To decide which podcasts to recommend. So please do so in your app now. And second. If, you know, someone you think may enjoy Behind the Swipe. Please share a link from wherever you listen. Thanks again for all your support now. Back to the show. So I am back with t h Irwin, t h Irwin of the ex experts.com and the very successful podcast, divorce, et cetera. So welcome back th.

TH: 19:31
Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here with you.

Hoyt: 19:36
So we heard in the first half of the show from Holly, and Holly is very recently divorced. I mean, the, the announcement of the breakup just happened 20 months ago.

TH: 19:48
Yeah.

Hoyt: 19:49
hear now from Liz. And Liz has waited five years before beginning to date. For a number of reasons. So first I want to hear her story that is about that hesitation that she had about dating in the first place, and particularly with dating online. So let's hear from Liz.

Liz: 20:15
I was divorced about five years before I started to take the plunge, into online dating. And I will be quite honest when I say it was a long, slow process to dip my toe into those waters. I had, Middle schooler and a high schooler. So life was kind of busy. I also realized that, there had been some significant, little t Trauma in my marriage that I needed some space with. so I decided that I would not date for a year after I was divorced. and I had almost a two year gap between I. our decision to separate and the divorce being finalized. some of that was the kids. Some of that was intentional in terms of me deciding that I, I wanted to do some healing work. Um, I looked back at my relationship history and I'd gone straight from college boyfriend to. Literally straight from college boyfriend to after college boyfriend to dating my then husband. so I recognized that I had kind of gotten lost in that process. So I wanted to kind of get to know Liz again. So that's the positive side of it. The negative side of it is that there was definitely, confidence issues that were not the fault of my ex-husband, but were exacerbated by, the, the dynamics of our relationship, exacerbated by, infidelity. trust issues that, again, were exacerbated by the, the infidelity. But, once I kind of dug into the root, there was definitely a root of not trusting myself and I wanted to kind of stand on my own two feet before I figured out how to invite somebody else into my life. then there's just all the anxiety about the unknown. I leaned toward not doing it even while I was engaging in the process of signing myself up and, you know, doing some research. I, procrastinated, quite a bit by going, well, I need to research this a little bit more. I'm gonna study. Let me, let me see if I can find anybody who's done it. really it's just the uncertainty. The, I do not know what's on the other side of that door. or I don't know who is on the other side of the screen, let's say. Personality for me, it is also involved like the, I wanna do this right in quotation marks, you know, that, um, I don't wanna mess up. So some perfectionistic tendencies, which, definitely. Uh, is a pattern that has held me back in different areas of my life, but this is definitely one of'em where I was like, okay, here we go again. I'm overthinking. I am thinking that there's a right way to do this and a wrong way to do this, rather than just doing it and trusting myself to figure it out each step of the way to figure out the process, to figure out what I want to do. Both of those are really important. Like there is a process, but this is not life or death.

Hoyt: 24:01
Fuck. So th that story's got to resonate with you.

TH: 24:06
I mean, she's me. We are soul sisters here. good for her for taking the time for herself. Good for her for healing. There's no deadline. Anything, you don't have to start dating at a certain time. You don't have to do anything except according to your own, path. I don't love the idea that she limited her life and set restrictions on herself, but maybe that's also protective Instinct she has based on coming out of her marriage. the more you can control, the less risk there, there exists. So if she focuses on her kids and whatever else she had going on, then there's no room to be vulnerable and potentially get

Hoyt: 24:52
Uh, uh.

TH: 24:54
but then she's talking about being, perfect in dating and that also ties back to her marriage. I get it. I, it was never good enough. No matter what I did, it was never right. I could do it exactly the way he asked, and it just, it wasn't good, so it didn't matter. So she, in my mind, has already done so much work that she can actually see. I. Her vulnerability and her, I don't like to call them weaknesses. They're like lesser strengths because as soon as you can see it, then you can move forward. It's when you don't see it and then you ignore it, that you're stuck. So I also like that she is moving forward. There is no such thing as a perfect date,

Hoyt: 25:42
what struck me with that is that, she's, demonstrating a lot of wisdom, and, and you can see, you can hear in her voice. The growth that she went through as she was processing all of this. and to your point, th if it takes five years for you to be ready to do that, it takes five years. But you're working on yourself that whole time.

TH: 26:07
Yep.

Hoyt: 26:08
but this tendency toward perfectionism, Right. Oh, you know, I got one shot at this, I gotta do it. Exactly right. You know, that's a com kind of a companion that goes with, I need to lose a little weight, right? Oh, I'm going to, get this work done. I get the Botox and then I'm gonna get back on, or I can't do this because I don't have the right photos for it. There are all of these reasons, and, and I think that, and we'll hear in the second part of this. That she did get past that. But don't you feel like so many men and women actually go through exactly this hesitancy.

TH: 26:48
A Absolutely. I think the big thing here are expectations. And it was, I just watched, I think it was the season finale of, and just like that, you know, the Sex and the City spinoff, they all had to say something. They were gonna give up. And Carrie said, expectations. And when you're going into this next phase of your life after divorce, you have to be a little vulnerable. And don't go in with expectations, otherwise you're not gonna learn anything. You're fully restricting yourself and the opportunity to have a great night. Well, he didn't pull out the chair for me, but we sat and spoke for two hours and I laughed and I walked out feeling great, but he didn't, he didn't do that. So like, Lose the expectations. Go in. You have nothing to lose. Have your girlfriend on the phone be like, oh, okay. I gotta, I gotta go. If it's not working out, you know you have a way out. You're not locked in for life by going on one date.

Hoyt: 27:58
Well, I know that at least half of our audience wants, she was a girlfriend right now.

TH: 28:04
I am here for you girls and guys I got, I got your back. I mean, expectations are, are what paralyze us, I think from growth and success. I know it actually, I know it. I wouldn't be where I am if I had limited myself with expectations.

Hoyt: 28:23
t h you also talked about something. That I've heard you say on your podcast about the importance of, understanding for yourself why it is that you want to date. What are you dating for? Can you tell us some more about that?

TH: 28:37
I think it's really important that you set your intention and none of your intentions are wrong unless you're harming somebody. Okay, so. If your intention is, I have not had great sex in forever. Then go and have great protected, smart sex. Go live your life. If your intention is, I just want someone who's interested in books and we can sit and talk about, you know, all these things, then join a book club and be intentional about who you're talking to if you are looking for a life partner. Now, intention and expectations are two different things. Because my intention of going out with people was to learn about myself. I wasn't expecting anything of it except that I was hoping to uncover more of. Me so I could get back in touch with me and what I might like, because I know in my forties I'm not looking for the same thing as I was in my twenties. So it's a whole new lineup here. So being really intentional about what you're looking for will help weeded out all the people who are just not gonna be a good fit for you. You know, you speak to them in two seconds, they don't have the same interests. Okay. This just, it's not gonna work. Like I, I just, I knew also my intention was I wasn't, I a hundred percent was not gonna date anybody who wasn't already divorced and had kids. I, I am not going down another path of educating someone on what it's like to be a parent. And my divorce was four years and, and really difficult. And I, I don't wanna be judged by it. You know, so be very clear on your intentions. You wanna hook up, you wanna just laugh, you wanna go out for a drink, you wanna find somebody, you wanna just travel with somebody or you just want someone to talk to. Whatever you write all those things down because then you will hold yourself accountable to your intentions and then you can clean it up.'cause I'm sure there'll be some, you're like, ah, that probably wasn't a, like a realistic

Hoyt: 30:51
and like you say, I mean, your intentions may change and evolve over over time. So if you're just dating for companionship right now, go for it. Right? If you're just dating for sex right now, go for it.

TH: 31:04
do it.

Hoyt: 31:06
and that will teach you every relationship that you're in teaches you something about yourself.

TH: 31:12
As long as you have your eyes and ears open,

Hoyt: 31:16
That is an important

TH: 31:18
and you, and you know, Holly mentioned about, um, you know, other people said it was a nightmare, maybe they weren't ready to learn. You know, like, you don't get me already. We've just met for a drink for 15 minutes. How am I supposed to get you? So,

Hoyt: 31:34
Yep.

TH: 31:36
Yes, and yes.

Hoyt: 31:38
So Liz's experience, then let's fast forward. She did take that leap. She did jump online and spoiler alert, she's in a great relationship with a guy that she met on eHarmony right now. And so you can hear in her voice in this next, clip that I'll play for you. How important it was and what she really learned from that experience the first time. So let's listen to the rest of Liz's story.

Liz: 32:09
Liz. You're being too serious. Lighten up. Quit overthinking. I mean, there are definitely some lessons that I learned in the writing, the profile part. and so much of that was because I had not seen a platform's profiles. I didn't know what it, you know, how do you create something when you don't know what the, the expectations are? once I did get. Online and started becoming familiar with, how men do their profile. I was like, oh, I, I put way too much angst into this process. and judged myself way too harshly. I could have, thrown a couple of pictures up and a couple of lines of. Non agonized over text and, been just fine. and I don't say that to be judgmental of what I found because the truth is that everybody in the online space is coming from a different place. I was looking for the experience and then if a partner came out of it, then that was gonna be a bonus. Life is what you make of it. So online dating's gonna be what you make of it too. If you make it serious, and heavy, then it's not gonna be fun. And it can be fun. Like it's fun to, to meet new people and to hear their stories and to learn about yourself through the process. It's, I thought it was a lot of fun to, Experience, new confidence within myself. Like, the courage to say, no, thank you. Like that doesn't have to be a rejection of somebody. And I didn't have to see it as a rejection of me when somebody was like, no, I don't see this going anywhere. Okay, so nice to meet you. We had some fun. Thank you for, the nice meal or meals or activities or whatever it was. and then just move forward, see what comes next. I think culturally women are raised to put so much, Importance on a partner relationship, like the whole Cinderella and Prince charming, concept. And I think, I hope that that is changing. I know it certainly has changed in my life and there's no expectation that somebody's gonna rescue me from my life, but enhance my life or support me in the journey of making my life what I want it to be. Like me writing the end of that fairytale rather than it. Coming together because of the presence of someone else. and that was also part of my dating experience was to detach happiness ever after, from having a partner.

Hoyt: 35:08
T

TH: 35:09
Good

Hoyt: 35:11
Liz is a soul sister of yours,

TH: 35:12
her. Yeah, she's a rockstar. I, I love all of it and I think she realized that being authentic is the best way to be instead of. Trying not to mess up the dating and look, if it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit. And she's also grown up a lot. Like she's, you know, I, I've learned to laugh at myself and not be like, oh my God, I screwed up. I, I wasn't good enough. Instead, I literally laugh at myself because it's so ridiculous some of the things that I do. And, and you're coming from a very fragile state when you come out of a marriage like that. When you're all about control and you're all about everything being perfect to, I'm really glad she took all those years to work on herself so that she can enjoy instead of always being on alert that something's gonna go wrong. So I love being authentic in her new self. I think it's, I mean, she's, she's speaking my words.

Hoyt: 36:17
You know, back in the first part of her story when she talked about. trying to craft this thing right, and get the words exactly right and the right photos and all of that kind of stuff. one of the parts of the conversation that we didn't get to hear was that, Like you and Jessica, right? It was a friend of hers that took her hand, walked her through, gave her the confidence to actually make that leap. And you can hear from her story in her own words that she's a very different person than the person that first hesitated to date online. So that's an important piece of this, right, is finding the right support system that encourages you through this process.

TH: 37:10
I mean, we, we remind everybody all the time that they are not alone. You feel very lonely because your immediate pod that you're in might not get it and maybe you don't wanna share with them, but that's why we did ex experts. We are no bss, no judgment. We don't know you. We are fully taking you for your word. We're gonna help you based on what you're sharing with us. And we have people who are very transparent and there's a fear of doing things alone. What if I mess up? What if, what if I was in a relationship for five years and I swore I would never get married again, and my parents would talk to me about it and say, Maybe you're just not gonna marry him. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, I'm never getting married again. He's fine. But I'm never getting married again because I didn't wanna get divorced again, except that if I married that guy, I would've gotten divorced again and my man. Now I don't need to get married, but I would only marry him. So you're not with somebody because you need to be with somebody. You're not getting married because you have to be married. The relationship is everything. First. It's your relationship with yourself that allows you to have relationships. Forget about a guy or a girl. How about friends? Family. I had to set up new boundaries with my mother'cause that's what led me to my marriage being a debacle. So it all starts with you. then the people you surround yourself with, and you were talking about negative voices in your head, the more you surround yourself with positive voices, positive, mantras, positive, Thoughts, they will outweigh the negative. And then when someone brings something negative to you, you can say, you know what? I disagree. And that's the end of the conversation. You don't have to hear it anymore. actually my boyfriend's mother says that, she's like, I respectfully disagree. And it's kind of like, okay, we're done here. Like, there's nothing else to say. So people don't, you know, also friends and family don't always know the right thing to say, so we're not mind readers if you have people who are important in your life. Who are not saying the right thing and not doing the right thing by you, whether it's dating or friendships or work or whatever, I, I would have a conversation with them and set new boundaries for yourself. You know, I really don't like that. And Bradley was mentioning, you know, that this, this man was, this woman was ready to leave her husband when he came home from a business trip. He goes, why are you leaving me? She said, because you never tell me that you love me. He goes, oh, well I thought you just knew. She was sitting with that for who knows how long without having the conversation about it and letting it become something bigger. So being good with you. Setting boundaries, learning to communicate in a productive way. This will help with dating online, dating, getting your job, getting yourself back out into the world. I have someone I work with who just did a triathlon. She's like, I can't run swim or bike, but I'm giving myself six months and I'm doing it. And she just did it last weekend with her son. She goes, and I beat my son in swimming so, You can, you all can do anything, but it starts with you. So be authentic, be intentional, be forgiving also.'cause you're gonna make a shit ton of mistakes. Um, but just keep moving forward. That's, that's all. So, I'm super proud of Liz and I'm super proud of Holly. You know, they, they're still moving forward. You go at your own pace.

Hoyt: 41:05
That's so inspiring. Th So tell me about one of the other things that she talked about, I'm curious about this. Is this, sort of cultural notion of the Prince Charming kind of thing? It does. Is that really a, a problem with expectations like we were talking about before, and how do you disconnect from that Paradigm that exists in the world, this expectation that's unrealistic sometimes.

TH: 41:34
I think fairytales are very different for a lot of different people. You can think of Cinderella. Do you ever see the Dunkin Donuts commercial? Where Rapunzel's upstairs and he is like, Rapunzel, let down your hair. She's like, no, I'm good. He goes, can we still date? She's like, no, I'm good. We'll see other people. And she pulls her hair up and she goes on her way. She, she's totally disrupted the fairytale Look, the fairytale is that you live your life being authentic, happy, and good with yourself. Like I said at the beginning, whoever's in that pod with you just adds and elevates that level, and it's not either or. Well, I've got kids so I can't date. I've got a job, so I can't take time for myself. They can all coexist together for you. So there's definitely a fairytale out there. My fairytale. My man was that I blew him off because I was on a dating tear. I had two and three dates in a day. I had Paul, upper West Side, John, you know, in Jersey. I, I had everybody labeled. It was like a whole like, I don't know, diagram of a mess. And I had been speaking to my boyfriend through Hinge and then texting and we had both gotten dogs and whatever, and I was like, you know what? I'm shutting it down. I'm done. I'm out of control. I don't even know who I'm talking to anymore. And so we were supposed to have drinks and I blew him off and he went, he only lives a mile from my house for 30 years. I never met him, so this is my fairytale. He went to the bar instead, he saw my girlfriend. He's like, th is too busy for a drink. She's like, yeah, you know, maybe he, she gets busy. I don't know. So, I'm traveling for work. I come back to pick up my dog from the kennel'cause that's where I board her. And he walks in with his dog and he goes, how was your trip? And we have been together every day since it's five years. And it wasn't love at first sight, but it's the first time that I actually saw him, like in person for real, but also like, I felt some connection, but I wasn't like, oh my God, I'm in love with this man. He's my forever. It took some time. It took some time, but it grew and he inter, there was something about him, like, I'm sure you have that with your wife, like when you were dating, like, I don't know what it is, but there's something about this person that's different than who

Hoyt: 44:08
wanna find out more. Right? It makes you curious. I wanna find out more.

TH: 44:12
interested. So your fairytale may not be that someone's gonna drop someone at your front door. Your fairytale might not be, oh my God, this is the first I guy dated. He's into me. I'm done. I don't have to date anybody ever again. I'm fully in love. This is great. It's your own fairytale is gonna be your own. So it's not gonna be in the movies or in the books, which are all fun to read about and everything. It's your real life fairytale that's gonna, you just keep your eyes open. You'd be a hundred percent authentic and that'll become your fairytale. It's just, it's very funny. And side note, my dating app filters, he never would've qualified. We never would've matched except that he was divorced and had kids. That was it. I mean, literally you had to be five 11. He's five seven. You had to go to the gym. He never goes to the gym. He's in construction. I was, I always dated guys in finance, like, could not be more different. His pictures on hinge were ski boots on a mountain, not even his face. Um, flip flops on a boat, on a lake. Never saw his face. I think there was only one picture with his face and he was clean shaven. So when I saw him at the, at the vet, I didn't even recognize him'cause he had like scruff. So I had no, and I was dressed in sweatpants, Uggs, a hat. I, I was picking up my dog after a work trip. Like I was not ready, but that was my fairytale. So let your fairytale unfold in the most authentic way for you. That's what I think.

Hoyt: 45:54
So th my fairy tale is having you as a guest host this week. This has been fantastic.

TH: 46:02
Thank you so much. I am really so honored to be here. I love that we have this friendship also and that we're gonna be bringing people. So much rich information. Knowledge is power everybody, and you are so fortunate to be here with Hoyt and with me and the other guests that he also brings on this show and all of the ex experts, like we are your people. So make sure you always listen in. We've, we've got great advice for all of you.

Hoyt: 46:30
remind people of how to find you on the socials and how to get to your podcast and the website.

TH: 46:35
So the website is, Ex ex p e r t s.com. It's ex experts.com. Our podcast is there. All of our articles are there. You can have a list of all of our 180 plus ex experts who we interview because we are not lawyers, we are not therapists or financial planners. We will get you the information that you need from what kind of divorce? How do I pay for my divorce? How do I know I need a divorce? We did a whole other masterclass on to date or not to date, and we do a divorce tip Tuesday. Every Tuesday on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, all at X, experts and divorce, et cetera can be found on all podcast platforms. So, Or you can just email us hello at x experts and we will guide you.

Hoyt: 47:32
Th thanks again. This has been fantastic, and I look forward to having you back again sometime.

TH: 47:38
I would love it. Thank you so much. This really was a fabulous opportunity and and a great day.

Hoyt: 47:46
If you're enjoying behind the swipe. You can subscribe to our weekly episode feed on apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And follow us on Instagram at behind the swipe podcast. Got an over 40 dating story. We'd love to hear it. Just go to behind the swipe.com and click on the, be a guest tab. We just might feature you on one of our upcoming episodes. I'm your host, Hoyt Prisock. Until next week. Swipe fearlessly.