Episode 6 - Would Barbie Swipe Right on Ken?
Would Barbie Swipe Right on Ken?
Join Bradley Richardson and Morgan Lawley and me as we discuss masculinity in online dating. We talk about how Barbie filmmakers present two polar opposite extremes in their portrayal of the iconic "Ken" as a mild mannered milk-toast AND as a misogynistic bro. How should a modern man present himself as an online dater? What does it mean to project masculinity without alienating the modern woman?
BONUS: You'll want to hear Morgan's story of how she credits Barbie for much of her success as an award winning film and television director and producer.
This week’s Guest Co-Hosts
Bradley Richardson
& Morgan Lawley
Bradley is the creator of Advanced Adulting, where he coaches and creates content to help grown ass adults navigate the shifts and changes of midlife.
He's a five-time bestselling author, speaker, coach, executive who's been featured in the Wall Street Journal. Rolling Stone on Good Morning America, NPR and more. A 50-something fifth Generation Texan and father of three Grown kids, he lives in Dallas, Texas and he can be found on social media and the web at I'm Bradley Richardson.
Morgan Lawley is an award-winning producer, director, designer, and creator in the film and television industry. She currently has several fascinating projects (like Gogo Chateau) in development, but Morgan also has some unique connections to the Barbie world. And she's currently single and dating online.
Transcript:
Hoyt: 0:03
This is Behind The Swipe,the podcast that takes you inside the lives of real men and women over40who have taken the plunge into the Offen,Burkey,and sometimes exhilarating world of online dating.Each week,we explore new topics through the experiences and expectations of real online daters just like you.I'm your host,Hoyt Prisock.Join me as we peel back the one dimensional dating profiles to discover the real men and women behind the swipe.Welcome to this week's episode of behind the swipe.You know,I was all set for a very different show this week.Interviews done research completed.Guest host lined up.We were on the home stretch.So what happened to derail that.Barbenheimer happened.Stop the presses.New direction.We need to talk about Barbie.Well,Not Barbie so much.Really.We need to talk about Ken.And by Ken,I mean,stereotypical Ken.But let's back up for a second.I had been eagerly awaiting Christopher Nolan's new film Oppenheimer.I had every intention of seeing it in IMAX this weekend.When I suggested to my wife,Katie,that we should get Oppenheimer tickets for Saturday afternoon.She reminded me that she and a half dozen50something girlfriends already had plans.They were going to all don pink outfits and go see Barbie that very afternoon.Did I want to come.My response took all of about10milliseconds.Uh,no.Thank you.But when she came home,She convinced me that this movie was in fact.A clever and funny commentary on the roles that women are assigned in this culture.And the idealized roles that they aspire to.All told through the lens of the iconic11inch Barbie and her fellow dolls.It was all she could talk about for the next24hours.Okay.That was,uh,I had to see it.And we did.What intrigued me most was the film's treatment of Ken in relation to Barbie.Now don't get me wrong.I'm a hundred percent supportive of the empowering message for women that is at the heart of the Barbie movie.And I'm not in the target demographic.You say,as a male child of the sixties and seventies,my dominant figuring influence was in the form of a GI Joe.I had always assumed that Ken was Barbie's boyfriend.Apparently.While Ken had feelings for Barbie,those feelings were forever destined to be unrequited.Oh,I guess I should've mentioned that there were going to be spoilers in this episode.Sorry.Too late.The filmmakers have cast Ken as a sweet,uncomplicated and shallow character.They later morph Ken into the polar opposite as the macho bro,arrogant asshole,kind of like an incredible Hawk transformation.But all of this got me thinking about the central conundrum for men in the online dating world.What is it that women are really looking for?If Barbie and Ken both joined hinge,let's say.Is there any scenario under which Barbie would swipe right on this guy?Alright.Alright.I'll concede.It was Ryan Gosling and this just may have been the one exception to the rule that men should not post shirtless pitch on their profile.So to help me unpack some of these issues,I am joined today by two of my absolute favorite people,each of whom is uniquely qualified to weigh in on this Bradley Richardson and Morgan Lawley.Bradley is the creator of Advanced Adulting,where he coaches and creates content to help grown ass adults navigate the shifts and changes of midlife.He's a five-time bestselling author,speaker,coach,executive who's been featured in the Wall Street Journal.Rolling Stone on Good Morning America,N P R and more,a50something fifth Generation Texan and Father of three Grown kids.He lives in Dallas,Texas and he can be found on social media and the web at I'm Bradley Richardson.And Morgan Lawley is an award-winning producer,director,designer,and creator in the film and television industry.she currently has several fascinating projects and development,but Morgan also has some unique connections to the Barbie world,and she's currently single and dating online.So welcome to both of you.
Bradley: 5:13
Thank you.
Hoyt: 5:15
So Morgan,I'm gonna start with you.It,it seems like if Barbies inventor,Ruth Handler had noble aspirations about how her doll might inspire young girls to dream big and go on to independently achieve their goals,you just might be the poster child for that.So,where did your Barbie love affair start?
Morgan: 5:36
Oh my gosh.Well,I was a,you know,I was born in1963,so sort of at the,first rise in wave of the brand.we didn't have a lot of options back then.You know,the toy market wasn't as,broad and saturated as it currently is,you know,wasn't so,specialized in niche.so,you know,we had.Barbie as the if,unless you wanted to play with the baby doll,you know,Barbie was it.And so immediately when,I think my mom let me have,you know,maybe it was Kmart or somewhere where we were shopping and I was like,yeah,I want that.It just started from there,and then I just kept collecting them and collecting them and collecting them until I built sort of little Barbie compounds and worlds in the living room that was shut off to the rest of the world.But you know,we weren't allowed to go in there,but I got to build my Barbie and camp my Barbie camp.My brother had the GI Joe,but we can talk about that later.but yeah,it started at,probably six,something like that.going into the seventies and aligning,you know,paralleling the women's movement as well.So,Barbie as a brand just kind of kept morphing and changing with the times.
Hoyt: 6:47
And so as we were preparing for this,you had held up and you have in front of you probably seven different versions of Kendall.
Morgan: 6:57
No,I have four Kens here,but I had,probably who knows how many I've had over the years,and,they've lost their way.This one's legs fallen off.I had to kind of stick'em back on.This is Malibu.Ken,
Hoyt: 7:10
So Bradley.
Morgan: 7:11
me to introduce them?
Hoyt: 7:12
Uh,well,I might interview them later because,you know,I'm sure that they've got sort of emotional wounds that they have to deal with here as a result of,uh,the rejection from Barbie.But Bradley,so you grew up like I did with,GI Joes and this masculine identity of the go get'em guys.Tell me
Bradley: 7:34
Oh,absolutely.I.
Hoyt: 7:35
experience with that.
Bradley: 7:37
My,my early GI Joe experience.Yeah.You know,I was,uh,I had a much younger sister,so it wasn't like we had Barbies laying around or anything.But,um,yeah,I mean I grew up in that,that uh,era where,um,yeah,he was the cool boy's doll.And you didn't think him as doll.I never referred to him as a doll or thought of it that way.It was just,it was a play thing.the cool part was the imagination.That you could do with it.And,you know,he was a badass.I mean,he did everything.And I,and,and kinda like Morgan had the little compound or encampment there.Of course.I mean,I had the helicopter,I had kung fu grip,I had eagle eye,I had,I had the,the white one,the black one,the one with the beard,everything.And it was cool.And you know,you could use your own imagination for having these adventures.That's just it.And um,I think the interesting thing about it,you know,is,is granted,I've got,I've got three grown kids,and,and I,I,I would,I think raising kids now would be really difficult just for toy choice alone.But it was okay because,hey,Barbie was for girls and she had her,you know,the Ken thing and GI Jo was your action figure.So you did action things and manly things.But I really didn't think about it any other way.It just,it just was.
Morgan: 8:50
GI Joe girlfriend in that,in that world?
Bradley: 8:53
No.Oddly enough,there wasn't,you know,they,they never,never brought that out.Um,you know,but here's the thing though.Okay.So what you do is if you had kids in the neighborhood and there were a girl,there was a girl there,of course you'd have,and,and,and I think,you know,and,and prepping for this point,and I talked a little bit about this,okay?So no,I didn't have any,any Barbies.But you know,if there were girls in the neighborhood who had one,of course,they're,they're gonna get together.Gi Joe and Barbie hooked up.I mean,that's the thing.They're the,they're the boyfriend and girlfriend.It's not like,oh,there's,there's Ken.He was never in the equation.It was GI Joe and,and Barbie.At least in,at least in my little world,your results may vary rates.
Morgan: 9:32
My brother totally traumatized me with his gi,GI Joe.He and his friends went into my Barbie world when I wasn't there and they stripped them down and they brought their GI Joes in and they traumatized me.I was like,what happened?It was,it was like a crime scene.I was devastated.That was,I think,my first.You know,sexual sort of impression was
Bradley: 10:02
Right.How,how sad is it here?Okay,so we'll,we'll go there.So for little boys,I guess of that,gener of our generation,hoy,okay?The first boobs you ever see are gonna be either the,the,the weirdness of a Barbie or National Geographic.Both will traumatize you right there and don't,don't serve you well for later in life in any way,shape,or form.
Hoyt: 10:22
So,you know,with the GI Joes,I think that's where guys sort of got their training and their inculcation,that it's expected of you that you'll run across fields with bullets raging to go save a buddy.Right?And,and,and actually that's one of the elements I think of masculinity.That is,you know,underrepresented here.And that is this role of protector.And that was really what,I think the GI job
Bradley: 10:50
You know,it,it,I,I agree with you.I think protector is a good thing,but I think if we're gonna,if we're,you know,we're,we're30,40years plus removed on this thing,I think that the word I would use is capable.So rather than protect her,I think that's huge,but I think capable.And let's look at that and juxtapose that against Barbie here.Okay,so Barbie's capable because what,she was an astronaut,she was a model,she was a lawyer,she was president,she did all this shit.And with GI Joe,it was,he was capable because he got stuff done.Okay.And if that meant protecting his buddy,flying a chopper,looking at dealing with the biohazard thing,or you know,getting together with the village and Barbie.He was capable.And I think if we really bring it back,that's what,that's what we're looking for.Okay.Women are infinitely capable.Okay.In,in any number of things.You know,business and everything.It's,it's equality,but capability.But there's also that thing that,that is interesting,and I see this as a generational difference too.People who have Gen X of our40,50something plus.You know,there is that idea of polarity that existed with GI Joe and with Barbie and,you know,with kin to a degree,I guess.But that's really what,you know,I have a,I mean,I'm fortunate have a huge,you know,social media following probably about70to80%women.And really if you,if that age,if you ask them point blank,they're gonna go,yeah,I just want,I want a man's man.I can do my own shit.I don't want to,I just want a man's man to be able to do it.
Morgan: 12:21
That's right.
Bradley: 12:22
So it's capability.
Hoyt: 12:24
So Morgan,what's your take on that?
Morgan: 12:27
Yeah.I mean,there's a lot of parallel there.I think.Um,I,you know,I do a lot of self-help kind of.Pursuits.Um,Tony Robbins a big fan of Tony Robbins.I do a lot of his seminars and stuff,and he has a relationship day and one of his programs called Date With Destiny.This is a little off topic,but it's really about,you know,what women want ultimately and,um,you know,he has,and,and what men know about what women want on a,you know,real soul level and.At the beginning he says,you know how you know men pay attention?How many women,how many of you were a,had fear for your safety today?Every hand.6,000.You know,women's hands shoot up.How many of you,you know,feared walking to the car?Alone at night,all the hands shot up and the guys are looking around like,what?What do you mean I'm not a threat?Why are you afraid of me?Right.And it's not you in particular sitting next to me,but that kind of just,we just are always on guard around our safety.And then,He moves on to say,you know,women,how many of you have fantasies about being taken or,you know,held or pressed against a wall?Again,every hand shot up.And so it was this strange,you know,ex it exposed like we,we want part of that,but not all of that.We don't want the predator,we want the protector.And so we do,I don't know,I can't speak to every woman or about every woman,but that it,it's a recurring theme.
Hoyt: 14:09
So that's interesting.And it gets to a thing that I wanted to explore here because one of the things that struck me about the Ken that was presented,the meek and mild Ken,when he entered the real world,And his eyes were open to this patriarchy and the men running the world and.The thing that he found that he lacked was competence.He lacked the competence in,I mean,all he could do was beach,right?That that was,that was a,a kin role.So he had no competency,he had no strength.So it was clearly a polarized,caricature really on both ends of that.and it reminds me of,uh,you guys may be familiar because he has a podcast called Prog,and it's,it's Scott Galloway.And he talks about this,sort of crisis for men and,and particularly young men,but it's,it's around how they embrace their,their masculinity.And he says,look,he says,men think more about sex than women do.And they use that as a motivation to meet women.So men are more impulsive and they go,these are the guys that'll run out in the,in the middle of a field to to,to save a buddy.So,so there's a,there's a protection and not that women won't do that,but the distributions are just sort of different in that.And so you hear in conversation.Women encouraging men to be softer,to be more in touch with their emotions and to,in some ways act more like a woman and be less masculine.But you know,the,the weird thing,this gets to the point,Morgan,that you were talking about,is that they don't wanna have sex with those guys.They do want that strange combination,and I think it makes it a difficult time for men dating online.Bradley.
Bradley: 16:10
Well,I hoy,I agree with you a thousand percent.I don't think it's just dating online.I think it's just being and living in existing in America today,uh,as a man,I think a lot of it does have to do with.Uh,you know,and it started with our generation really.Um,you know,you find a lot of,you know,again,I'll talk to clients of mine,um,and they'll say,what's the problem with men?I say,well,because they act like adolescents,because we get these mixed messages where we,it is these,this mixed message of.You know,well,I should be this way,but I should be this way.And,and really,so they're,they're confused as anything.And so they end up either being a wuss or,you know,some sort of dickish behavior.So it's opposite extremes.I think though,that,that,you know,the way that I put it,and I know a lot of,you know,I know a lot of men who are,are true voices in this men's movement.Okay?I mean,legit trained killers.I mean special ops guys,badass guys,I mean real life,GI Joe type.But who are also in touch with things.And I'm not talking the extreme,far,far,Andrew Tate type,and I'm not talking,you know,all peace,love,and light.I think it's the,I believe,I genuinely believe that what people are looking for,the,the,the,the goal would be a little bit Buddha and a little bit spartan.You know,you want that,that man,that man who is capable,that guy who is,you know,he's a badass when necessary.But he can also can communicate as an in touch with things.You know,he is not gonna go cry at the notebook keeping him with the Ryan Gosling theme,but still,you know,he.He knows what's up and he's not.He's also brave enough.And there's the thing too.I mean,in that men's movement,you know,vulnerability,you can find a lot.That's a polarizing word right there.But you know,you,I think you may have mentioned Jordan Peterson before and love him or hate him.I,you know,I think the guy's on target,I think the guy is on target,and he talks about this idea being vulnerable.There's a strength in vulnerability of being able to look inward.Then to be able to communicate that.And so it is that point.And I think he also says though that the eye of a,you know,a danger,a man should be dangerous,but be able to control it.I think that's really the
Morgan: 18:13
looking for Lance Alot,you know,we're looking for the,I don't know about everyone again,but we're,you know,sort of romanticizing the fantasy of having the champion who is also a knight,you know,that can defend against,and yet,yes,my lady,
Bradley: 18:33
Mm-hmm.
Hoyt: 18:34
So that's a,that's,so I had a conversation this week with a,a,a single woman named Shea.She's now in a relationship,but because she's,got a bunch of friends who are in the same position that she is.She's been divorced just a couple of three years,had just started getting back into the dating world,and I was asking her about this concept of how you read masculinity.on a profile.Listen to what she said.
Shay: 19:05
I knew what I didn't want.And masculinity versus,you know,non masculine.That's really such a personal choice because what is masculinity and where do you draw the line of,where are you becoming too effeminate?I mean,I think that really depends on what I,how I grew up.I,um,I dated enough meatheads to know what that can come with,and that's a big ego.Um,a womanizer,not all the time,but you,you know,you look through the,you know,culturally that's sort of what they're like.Um,and it really depends on where you are so I think it's interesting because the girls I talk to there's a range of what they're looking for and it,it depends on a lot what stage they're in and they're looking what their history is,and who they are really.I mean,some of the,maybe the more,the stronger women who may be your leaders may be looking for a less masculine person,and I have some friends who.Go for the bad boys.They don't care what happens and they keep getting hurt.Why?I don't know.But this is a,there's a lot of,how did they grow up?Um,you know,what was their history like?And I think a lot of it is environment and also,uh,you know,your history and your own relationships.
Hoyt: 20:20
So,Bradley,you're anxious to jump in on this'cause this,this triggered.
Bradley: 20:26
It.It totally Well,I agree with,I agree with her a hundred percent in that it is a stylistic.Preference.It is what do you,what are you attracted to?What do you enjoy,has to do maybe with your upbringing,but Strong women can want a variety of things.And what's funny,and,and I've,I've shared this story with Hoyt before,but there was a woman when I lived in Atlanta,there's a woman I,I went out with and once,and we were communicating,and she was what I call discount Jennifer Anderson.I mean,she looked exactly like Jennifer Anderson,I mean,She was,she was snarky,she was smart,she was fun.She was,she was a strong kind of alpha chick.And,and that's what I love.Okay.I'm really attracted to that.But what's funny is we decided,you know,we were talking about this,we thought we should go away.We should,we should like,try and give this a go and go away,uh,for a weekend.And she goes,look Bradley,she goes,look,it'd be a great weekend.We'd have a,we would have an intense hot time and we would wanna kill each other at the end of the weekend.And the reason is,Because you are entirely too alpha for me.I need a beta.I need some man.I can completely walk on,and that is not you.And I thought of that and I thought,huh,well thank you.I thought,well,that's the best compliment,you know,if that's the be best thing I've ever heard there,because I don't wanna be that guy.Well,yeah.You know what I mean?It's like,Well,really?'cause I thought,well,I'm not gonna sit there and look here.I totally,no,I mean,but I've been that guy.I mean,my history is,um,you know,I,I have sold out,I have,I understand those mixed messages very well because look,that's probably why I got married,you know,when I did okay,it was like,oh,well,instead of actually just,you know,pardon the,the term,but just nutting up and going,Hey,this doesn't work for me.This is not right.You try and.Make everybody happy.And this is in friendships and relationships than anything.You try and make everybody happy.You try and be vanilla.You try and be can guess what happens?You make nobody happy,including yourself.And really that's it.I mean,we talk this polarization thing,you know,it doesn't have to mean extremes,it just means being willing to stand up for yourself mean,you know,we talked about what women look for or seems to be,you know,what,what does masculinity mean online?You know,online,it's tough anyway.'cause it's just a picture.Okay.You can't really tell it's,it's a,it's a glorified version of hot or not.But when you actually talk to somebody,decisiveness,decisiveness,I mean,I,I'll tell you,you know how I got Shannon?One of the things here.She read something,she read something,she goes,I made the mistake of Googling you.And I read something you wrote.And it was,it was an article I had written about how a grown ass woman does not want to hang out.You need to date her.You need to actually make a decision.Show up.Have a plan.This is not rocket science.Okay?You're not splitting the atom here.You're not Oppenheimer.Okay?And so it's the idea of just some,it doesn't have to be perfect.It just has to be a plan because there are so many strong,badass,independent capable women out there who are doing it every day.The last thing they want when they show up at the,you know,for a date or whenever,is damnit.I have to make the plans now too.Really?I'll just go out with my girlfriends.It's a hell.A lot easier.I.That's it right there.
Morgan: 23:35
wanna do?I don't know.What do you wanna
Hoyt: 23:37
Yeah.Yeah.
Bradley: 23:38
Have an opinion.Yeah.
Hoyt: 23:42
Morgan,you're,you're a strong.Competent woman.An alpha,I would say.How do you look at this?So,so what,what is your type and what's your experience in,gauging the level of masculinity that you're looking for in somebody you date?
Morgan: 23:59
I mean,I'm clearly no expert'cause I'm still single.Right?I mean,I have had a series of monogamous relationships.I was married for a short time.But,you know,I think,you know,we talked a little bit about how many options there are out there,which is a real,it's a hard thing to navigate.But you know,we're all kind of looking for that perfect for us person.And what does that look like and what does that mean for me?I know myself very well,so I don't waste a lot of time on things that I know are ultimately going to fall apart.Somewhat similar to the woman that Bradley was just talking about.Um,it's like,you know what?I know I'll chew,I would chew you up.That won't work if you know,if I can,I mean,if I need somebody as strong as me,but in a different way.You know,where I can lead in certain parts of it.'cause I'm going to,anyway.Anything to do with,you know,the feeling of things or design or the layers of emotion in,in the relationship and,and even in my own career and the things that I want to accomplish and the travel and the freedom and choosing things like that.But I,you know,I want a guy who's certain about me.Number one,first thing is gonna be I pick you.You're the one I pick.'cause that goes a long way.This like,I'm not sure I'm check my options open.Yeah.Not interested in that.If I feel that even smell it kind of sorta I have moved on.If they don't see in me,I.My value.That's the first thing.So it's certainty is really important to me.It's also important that they have something that they're passionate about in the world and doing so that,I mean,Esther Perel talks about this as far as,you know,monogamy and how do you stay monogamous in something?We're not really.Geared to do,um,is by being able to see your partner across the room on fire,doing the thing that they are really good at,and you're like,woo,yay.You know,that's mine.You know,there,it's,it's super important for me.Um,I always,'cause I've been a director for a very long time,I use this phrase that I need a wide shot.I need to go to the wide shot and see how this looks.You know how this person is moving through the world.Whether I'll choose,you know,to spend a little time investigating that.I mean,I'm obviously not,you know,not doing so well on the results,
Hoyt: 26:26
No,that's,that's,that's great Bradley.
Bradley: 26:31
I think one,one thing too is,you know,we talk about what.What each of us wants.Looks,there is a,you know,there's a gap,there's a void.You know,when you have a man and a woman together when you're dating okay,or looking to date,there is that,that gap in there that needs to be filled.And the challenge,you know,part of the challenge is on both sides is.Men are,are often confused now of,Hey,should I step into this gap?Should I take the lead?Should I be decisive?Should I make the plans?All of these things,which old school?Yeah,you should.But the other thing is,In,in absence of anyone stepping into that,women step into it,and this is my experience with a lot of clients,okay?A lot of female clients is because someone is strong.A,a woman is strong,capable,independent handling things.She gets shit done.She.Jumps into that space instead of the man or first.And so I can't tell you one of my favorite,you know I say favorite.I just,it happens a lot when you're dealing with someone.It's like,well,you know what?I'm gonna do this.And he,if he can't handle me in a,you know what,that's great,but you have to take a beat.You have to take a beat because just as you want that man to step up and lead,he doesn't want,he wants a strong woman,but he doesn't want a buddy.He doesn't want to have to sit there and be a be a competition,you know?Because guess what?He doesn't wanna sleep with his friend.He doesn't wanna sleep with his best buddy out there.He doesn't wanna always have to be this constant back and forth head butting.So it is,it's this delicate dance.Of both of the man leading and the woman allowing to lead.I know that's not very popular with a lot of people,but knowing he's capable of doing that,
Morgan: 28:11
And leading is very,I mean,it's subjective,right?So leading in what capacity and what parts of the life in your life together.
Bradley: 28:19
Yeah,absolutely.And and it is,it is.
Morgan: 28:21
It doesn't mean I want to be submissive to someone in every aspect of my life.On occasion,in the bedroom,yes,of course,but not all the time.Or it's a balance,it's a dance.We're constantly assessing who's,who's gonna,you know,exert themselves now,who's gonna push forward in this,and then who's gonna recede.
Bradley: 28:44
it just doesn't work.It,it doesn't work because you know,the,my experience is that's when you know.When men,you know,I get a lot of people that say,uh,men don't like strong women.No,men love strong women.A strong,there is nothing sexier than a strong woman who will lean into her feminine.It's like knowing when to step up just like a man.You know when to step up and lead and you know when to actually kind of show your heart a little bit.It's both,it's both ways.Nothing sexier on either,on both fronts,and you can't tell that on a,you can't tell that online.You actually have to have a conversation with somebody.So the point of,you know,the,the point of all this is,Swipe,have no more than three back and forth texts.Then get your ass on the phone or a real conversation and talk to somebody in real life.
Hoyt: 29:24
Great advice and that's also a great spot for us to take a pause here and we will be back with Bradley and Morgan in just a moment.Behind the swipe is made possible by real online.Daters just like you.Willing to share their personal and authentic stories and perspectives as they seek love,romance and intimacy online.Head on over to behindtheswipe.com.Click the,be a guest link at the top of the page there.You'll learn about some of our upcoming episode topics and how you can help.So before we jump back into the topic at hand,this,uh,feckless,Ken,let's say,I wanna learn a little more Morgan about your,reconnection with,with Barbie.It's,it's an amazing story and I think our listeners would love to hear this.This is the early two thousands you've been successful in your,in your career,you couldn't just march in with credentials and do something,but you had an amazing opportunity.
Morgan: 30:37
Yeah,sure.I started my,directing career,in the music video.So my,I was a professional dancer.First,I was a Laker girl in the late eighties.I was a professional dancer with Donna Summer,Janet Jackson,Paula Abdul.I did the whole creative thing in front of the camera.I was on,um,this is going way back.I dunno,you can cut all this out,but I was on the Dirty Dancing tour.I was the lead dancer on that and the director of that show recognized leadership in me.And was like,you know,I mentioned one day when I'm a producer,he said,oh,I need a producer.You know,I'll teach you.And I was like,really?Okay,cool.So he taught me production in music videos.I realized quite quickly I hated it.Um,it was numbers,it was,I didn't even have a computer.I was like,this is really hard budget.All of that stuff.Um,but I did lean into the directorial piece of it.So I became,with the help of some colleagues,became a direct music video director.Um,in the nineties,93,I think I started directing music videos.Had a really successful stint at,and I was only one of very few women in the world that was getting those opportunities.Um,my male counterparts.Often would just jump straight from music videos into features.Just like,because they,had a penis.Uh,but I didn't even realize that was sort of a block for me.Being a woman was a block for me.It never occurred to me.I just thought,oh,I guess they're better than me or whatever.I come to,you know,now know what the data supports around that and exposure and all of that.unconscious bias and stuff that,that was affecting my career.But,One of the few areas where female directors get to jump to is toys,you know,toy commercials.And because I was a a bit of a Barbie fanatic,I used to do Barbie Christmas trees.I would take all my collection of Barbies and make Christmas trees out of them.My producer at the time,Michelle Abbott,um,Her girlfriend Isadora was a producer on,uh,at an agency called Ogilvy and Mather,and they had the Mattel business.They had the Barbie Mattel business and she was like,I think Morgan would be a great.Director for Barbie,and I was like,oh yeah,oh yeah.Sign me up for that.That was what I was made for.I could do this.I,you know,and,and it was really hard to get that,those jobs,right?You,you couldn't just jump across one genre of something as a woman for sure,into something else.Men,there was a,a,there were more decision makers in the room that were,you know,helping and aiding their.You know,colleagues move on.But as,as a female director,that wasn't the case.But,um,so I got this opportunity to pitch my ideas for how I would shoot these Barbie campaigns.It was the largest campaign they'd ever done in one go.It was14shoot days,which as a director,'cause you get paid for the day.It takes you months of,of prep,but you get paid a large sum of money for one day.That's how they just budgeted and because it was14shoot days,it was a small fortune for someone like me.At that time,I had a one year old child and I was like single mom,and it was super awesome opportunity,so I fought really hard for it.I custom made a popup book and embossed it with Barbie's name and.Blue,you know,in blue,in pink suede.And at the time it wasn't digital yet,so we weren't doing our treatments to bid on these jobs digitally.I had to do it in,you know,physical form.So I marched in this huge popup book that I'd created on how I was going to express myself around the job.And the agency was like,we love her.She's got it.I got the job.And,um,it went on to become one of the best.Doll commercial or you know,directors in the world.Um,there were only a few of us.Lori Precious is a colleague of mine.She and I were always competing for the same work.And I think I had maybe a good five years of Mattel specific and then went on to do dolls for,you know,brats and American girl and all the other,um,doll brands.Uh,but you know,I.Probably did a hundred Barbie or Barbie related commercials,ferry,topia,mermadia.Um,and for me at the time,not only was it something I loved and passionate about,I'm super passionate about the brand.Um,but I understood it from every angle.And when you are working with a brand who.Has this iconic character.Barbie is treated with enormous respect from the,from the company.You know,Matt Mattel is the company that Barbie built,and they treat her with reverence.And one of the things that we talked about every time I shot a commercial for them it was the aspiration.So what is the child's aspiration in this play pattern?And without question,they are just so good at that.And they've done it here with this movie.They've done it again.They've reinvented themselves again in a really modern way.So big fan.
Hoyt: 35:54
Oh,that's a great story As you were telling that,I was thinking,having just seen the movie that,oh,Morgan is Video Barbie,except you probably don't have a TV in your back.Right?
Morgan: 36:06
Barbie,
Hoyt: 36:07
Oh,director of Barbie.
Bradley: 36:08
Nice.
Morgan: 36:11
but she's blonde.I think there was a brunette one I might've had at one point is only one I found.
Hoyt: 36:16
I love it.I love it.All right,so I wanna lean back into some of these issues of conveying an appropriate balance of masculinity in your profile.And I want to go back to an interview that I had done,uh,previously where we talked about this.So I'm gonna play some of that for you right now.You may remember Paul from our episode on rebound relationships.I had had an opportunity to see Paul's online dating profile early on.And I was impressed at how he was able to.split the difference between this,masculine presentation.And a more sensitive side.So I asked him,was that a conscious process?
Paul: 37:01
as a male,you think in terms more of kind of the masculine,the go-go,the strength,the types of things that,You know,I hate to use a seventies term,the macho feel though.But that less sensitive side of you especially when you're first starting out,you start thinking your goal is to meet as many women as you can and to show your,your value and your worth.and that comes across as a guy,as being,you know,strong and those types of things.But,as you,I.Really step back from it and you start to think about it,at least as we try and decipher these complex things called women you come to realize that,there's another side to you that they want to know.They want to know the sensitive side.They wanna know the friendly side.They want to know the,the intelligent and the humorous side of you.And so I made sure that I brought up some things that I'm pretty good at,you know,along the lines of,of cooking a lot of stuff,you know,and that's.You know,I would consider that to be more of a sensitive thing than I would a kind of a,a masculine thing,considered to be a masculine thing.my photos kind of varied from just,doing normal to everyday activities to,of course you gotta have a requisite.Photo where you look good like you've been in the gym or something like that.So it was really a balance and it took me a little bit to kind of figure it out.It took some help from some girls,to be honest with you.Some friends of mine who said,Hey,okay,this is a good idea to emphasize this.Maybe you don't emphasize this as much,or you do emphasize this.I love this photo.This photo,not so much that type of stuff.So really to,understand what really is important to a female,you may need to get a female involved to help you.That's the moral of my story,and that's how I came to craft what I put together.
Hoyt: 38:53
So before,I want your,I want your feedback on this Bradley and,and you too,Morgan.But I have to tell you that one of the brilliant things that I thought that Paul did in his online dating profile was that his photo I.lead photo was a black and white.He was in a tux.It was in shadow.He had a martini.He was doing the whole James Bond thing,and it.
Morgan: 39:23
Sexy.
Bradley: 39:25
It's a,it's a good photo.
Morgan: 39:26
I love that he approached this like a job.He,he's profile,he's like,this is,I'm advertising myself right now and I am,I know who my target demographic is and I'm going to play to my strengths and what I believe my buyer wants.I love
Hoyt: 39:43
I thought it.
Bradley: 39:46
I think it is genius.So I'm gonna,you know,one,I applaud him.He did it right.I'm also gonna tip my hand here.It's kinda like the magician telling you how,how the trick works.I'm gonna,'cause I was,you know,I was single for a long time and I did the apps and everything.I killed it.I did really well.And there,there were a number of reasons why.One,when I,when I first,I thought they were gross.Okay.So if any of your new listeners here are thinking,well,I don't know,online's kind of disgusting and I've,I equate it to the ball pit at Chuck E.Cheese.Okay.Kind of fun,kind of gross.All right.It's both.when I first went on,I was reluctant.So the first thing I did is I got with friends of mine who were attractive,women I wasn't involved with,I.Who were gonna shoot me straight,And I said,okay,here's what I'm thinking.And I ran it by them.But what I also did,and this is the genius move,okay?I don't care what you may think,sleazy or whatever,but it just works.And women do the same.Women do the same thing.I said,show me your profiles.So I sat down with friends of mine who were women,and I got to see what these other jackasses were doing.I got to see what the competition was doing.So what I did is I got to see what every meathead out there was,every dba,everybody else in what they wrote,the pictures they put.And I thought,ah,okay,now I know what the bar is and it's remarkably low.And I just,I positioned it in a totally different way.And so with,not only with pictures,I went out and I got real pictures done.And then I also,to his point,you know,it was,I made it funny.It wasn't a resume and it wasn't a,oh,here's,well,I'd like this.It's not,I'm not a short order cook here.I was willing to tell exactly who I was,what I do,how they could find me.Okay.And also meaning like,okay,if you wanna Google me,here's the story.I'm okay with that.There's no,there's no innuendo,there's nothing hidden.And then I also,and this is what I think Hinge does such a good job with,okay.Those prompts,I was not afraid to be a little vulnerable with it.So one of my favorite prompts that H Hinge had,they asked those stupid questions,right?It was,what are you most embarrassed about?What's the most embarrassing thing on your Spotify playlist?So I did,I put this in my profile.I said,most embarrassing thing in my playlist.Not a sh,not a sh.I said,wham,careless whisper.I'll own that.Own that every day.And you know what?What's right behind it?Spice Girls.Okay.I said,no shame in my game at all on that one.I will own that.And you know what?I got more,more traction out of that.Okay.Than anything because they're like,okay.Kind of funny,not afraid to sit there and,well,I'm cool and I'm awesome and I'm this,
Morgan: 42:30
It is so funny that you say that.You say,oh,you know,I'll just,I'm not afraid to show my profile.But you were using that as a leader.You were like,oh yeah,this is gonna hook him.This is good.I'm so proud of how I am,and that's a Esther Perel moment.That's like going,okay,that could be my dude who's like doing all this really cool stuff,so,so clever.
Bradley: 42:50
Absolutely.You know,and I think that's the thing.People either put it in and men and women,you know,I,you can tell the bitter ones,you can tell the ones you wanna stay away from,you know,10feet away.It's like non-smokers,non
Morgan: 43:00
No drama.No drama.
Bradley: 43:03
no gold diggers,not a sleep around.You're like,good god,what a
Morgan: 43:07
Dude,that one word in a profile,I will pass.Every single time,if a guy says,no drama,no drama,please,that means I wanna do whatever I want all the time.I wanna have no pushback about anything I do.So it's like,oh,clue,clue,clue that.And the fish.The fish,
Bradley: 43:27
Uhhuh the mo.Yeah,I mean,it,it,
Hoyt: 43:31
That six pack.
Bradley: 43:33
I.You know,the,here's the,
Morgan: 43:40
Yeah,pass.
Bradley: 43:42
Or,or picture.And this goes from men and women here.Okay?I know we're a little off topic on this,but this works okay.No,no,no.I love this.Totally love this.The worst thing you could do,men or women,okay,is have a picture with your friends,because if you are you damn better,sure be.You better be the
Morgan: 44:00
the best looking one in that group.That's right.
Bradley: 44:02
the hottest one.You pick your ugliest friends and you definitely go take your pictures then,because I can't tell you how many times it's been like,oh,which one is it?Oh,damn.So you know that no one wants to see your kids.Um,you know,it is just
Morgan: 44:19
Nobody wants to see blurred out ex-girlfriends.That's amazing that that's still a thing.It's extraordinary.It's like,dude,get your picture taken by yourself
Bradley: 44:32
I did see one funny one though.It was a guy and he had that and he had his arm around this grill and he had her face kinda whited out.It was like,this could be you.And I thought funny.Really funny.I like that.
Morgan: 44:43
again,swiping left.
Bradley: 44:45
Yeah.But
Hoyt: 44:47
So,Morgan,you've seen a bunch of these,profiles of guys online.What percentage of them did it right?What percentage.
Morgan: 44:56
I mean0,0,00.1.I mean,And,and to the point where you kind of have to close one eye to see if there's potential in the deal.You know,sometimes I'll be like,okay,I'm just gonna have to pretend I didn't see that part.Is there anything in this?But I mean,I,I'm ruthless now because I,I mean,what am I gonna do?Drag some guy from Atlanta with me to France.When I go to move and restore my chateau,that's not happening.
Bradley: 45:25
Uh,
Morgan: 45:26
unless they're what?
Bradley: 45:28
Why not?
Morgan: 45:30
Right.I'm not,yeah,unless it looks like they're a pilot or,uh,you know,a con or contractor and has worked on historic properties,maybe.
Bradley: 45:43
The next site you're on is gonna be like some,you know,construction love.com or something like
Morgan: 45:47
Yeah.Do they have such a thing like the farmer one?Like do they have such a specialized thing for
Bradley: 45:53
Remodelers only.
Morgan: 45:55
It would be awesome.
Hoyt: 45:56
So Bradley,I know that you know this,and there's that reference that Morgan just made to,Chateau and France,and that's because you've got a channel where you are actively looking for a rundown chateau to build into your Barbie Dreamhouse.
Morgan: 46:15
That's right.That's right.It's,I mean,there's no surprise that I am still some sort of fairytale finding.Woman,like I've been that way since I was a little girl.I still have romantic fantasies of living in a chateau,but I'm just gonna do it by myself,you know?No prince required at this point.You know,I'm gonna do it myself.So,yeah,I,I have always wanted to live in France.I've always dreamed of having kind of epic.Chateau home to live in.But never thought that.I mean,how,how's,I wasn't born into royalty.How could I make that,you know,a reality?And then there,you know,during lockdown,well there have been articles over the years of,um,you know,very affordable chateau in not just France,but you know,primarily in France.'cause there's43,000of them.In the country.Not all for sale,but they,um,yeah,they're,they're cheap because they're so expensive to maintain and restore and,you know,but still for what you can get here in the us And so then during lockdown,you know,it's coming,all these Britts,were doing YouTube channels.About their Chateau finding and Chateau Restoration.And I'm like,alright,my daughter's grown.She's out of the house.If I don't do this now,when am I going to do it?So I just started the wheels in motion and um,you know,there was some,you know,There were,was a guide,uh,guide for me to do it.There were other people doing it and doing it well,and I thought,okay,if they can make,uh,money off of their YouTube channels and help support the restoration or the dream,you know,then you could do it.You have a background in.Production,like I should be able to do it.But I'm the slowest editor on Earth.I've only put out a couple of episodes.I've been looking for an editor to step in'cause I just don't enjoy it.But a lot of these have a high bar for how I want it to look.But yeah,so my,my channel's called Go-Go Chateau.It's like total,you know,sixties retro me dancing,looking,you know,for Chateau in France mashup.Um,yeah,
Hoyt: 48:18
No,I,I,I love it.It is always been my dream to have a friend with a chateau in France.
Morgan: 48:24
There you go.So you're,so that you're gonna promote it,like on your behind the swipe.So you're gonna assist me in the
Hoyt: 48:32
that's
Morgan: 48:33
audience
Hoyt: 48:33
exactly right.You will definitely get the behind this.
Morgan: 48:38
Yeah.I'm hoping that at some point there will be a prince that enters the picture.I don't know.It could be quite intimidating to have a,a woman with a chateau that you're trying to seduce,so we'll see.
Hoyt: 48:51
I think you got this.
Morgan: 48:53
Thanks.
Hoyt: 48:53
any last thoughts on,you know,guiding some of our,uh,listeners into the importance of showing the breadth of who you are in your profile?I.
Bradley: 49:04
You know,that's really the only choice.You know,I think I,you know,your listeners,the people here are.Uh,you know,we're all in midlife that,you know,forties,fifties,and beyond.And the point is we've spent so much time up to this point,probably wearing other hats,other labels,some of them put on by other people.And so we've learned the lesson to,you know what,there's really no other choice and you don't have that much time left,so just be you and your people will find you.And that's not meant to be pithy or cliche.It's just true.And you know,I love the fact Morgan is just saying,Hey,you know what,I'm just gonna do this for me.And you know what?Hey,if that,if,if,if Prince Charming or Ken or GI Joe,whomever chooses to show up,that's awesome.You can come along for the ride.And I think that being honest with yourself is the,the best,the best thing any of us can do.That's advanced adulting right there.
Hoyt: 49:57
and just remember,you're already K enough.
Morgan: 50:01
You're enough.That's all enough.got the.
Hoyt: 50:05
Uh,alright,Bradley,where can folks find you online?
Bradley: 50:09
Uh,I am all over social media at,I'm Bradley Richardson.So whether it's the web or whether it's uh,Instagram or TikTok,I'm Bradley Richardson is the,uh,the primary place.So love to,to,you know,follow me there and,uh,for good stuff,helping grown ass adults navigate midlife and love to hear from you.
Hoyt: 50:27
And Morgan,one more time on that,Gogo Chateau channel.
Morgan: 50:31
Yeah,YouTube is Gogo Chateau.Uh,Instagram is more.M o r is I sco,m o r.So more is more,but without the Ease.And also Gogo Chateau on Instagram.
Hoyt: 50:47
So you guys have been a delight as we've unpacked this conundrum of,of Ken,and I really appreciate all the great advice that,that you got and the real world experience that backs it up.So I know.
Bradley: 51:03
Nice.
Hoyt: 51:08
So much.I really,really appreciate it.
Bradley: 51:11
Thank you.
Hoyt: 51:14
If you're enjoying behind the swipe.You can subscribe to our weekly episode feed on apple,Spotify,or wherever you get your podcasts.And follow us on Instagram at behind the swipe podcast.Got an over40dating story.We'd love to hear it.Just go to behind the swipe.com and click on the,be a guest tab.We just might feature you on one of our upcoming episodes.I'm your host,Hoyt Prisock.Until next week.Swipe fearlessly.