Episode 13 - A Rose for the Golden Bachelor

A Rose for the Golden Bachelor

Join us on a riveting journey alongside Sheri Jacobs, author of the Friendship Diet, as we unpack the nuances of ABC's groundbreaking show, The Golden Bachelor. This episode promises to be an eye-opener as we challenge societal norms and expectations, particularly for the older generation seeking love and companionship. We delve into how the show presents a beacon of hope for many, offering an alternative perspective on aging and the pursuit of love.

From highlighting the power of love in one's golden years to exploring intimate communication and cultural barriers, we navigate the maze that is older love. Sherry Jacobs shares her astute observations on the show's unique approach to love and relationships, particularly its ability to present a more human, authentic, and vulnerable side of dating, a stark contrast to the often plastic portrayal of romance in the media. We also discuss humor’s role as a soothing balm to life's aches, proving that the ability to laugh with someone often supersedes surface-level attractions.

Lastly, we confront head-on the impact of ageism and gender roles in shaping society's perception of older people in the dating scene. Sheri offers her insights on how The Golden Bachelor could be a game-changer in how media represents older generations. We round off our chat with a deep-dive into the complexities of finding love and companionship at any age, reminding everyone that indeed, love knows no age. Stay tuned for another enlightening episode of Behind the Swipe next week. It's a date you don't want to miss!

This week’s Guest Co-Host

Sheri Jacobs

Sheri Jacobs shows how the buffet line of dating culture is only good for grazing.

Sheri is the author of The Friendship DietIf you truly want lasting relationships, then you must nourish yourself from the table of self-fulfillment. It’s time for you to create true and lasting change for yourself. Sheri will help you do that through her series of witty analogies. You will understand relationships like never before.

A former ELA teacher, Sheri is the Education Manager for the non-profit iWRITE, a professional voiceover artist, and a commercial and theatre actress. She uses her gifts as a public speaker and comedic storyteller to help men and women feed themselves on a diet of fulfilling relationships. Her writing accolades include a published children’s book called Dream Write aimed at showing kids how to turn fear into empowerment. Sheri is also a two-time finalist in THEMA’s short story contest and received Honorable Mention for a short story at Glimmer Train Literacy.

Transcript:

Hoyt Prisock: 0:03
This is Behind the Swipe, the podcast that takes you inside the lives of real men and women over 40 who have taken the plunge into the often murky and sometimes exhilarating world of online dating. Each week, we explore new topics through the experiences and expectations of real online daters just like you. I'm your host, hoyt Priceock. Join me as we peel back the one-dimensional dating profiles to discover the real men and women behind the swipe. So you wake up at age 52 realizing that for the last 25 years, other than walking the dog in the occasional yoga class, you've been ignoring a major part of your health and well-being fitness. To be fair, time and energy have, for the last few years, been in short supply. Since the divorce, you've had primary responsibility for the kids on top of a full-time job. How in the world are you supposed to fit in an exercise routine? But you know that the status quo is unsustainable. Your metabolism is changing. You've done the research and know that the commitment to strength and aerobic conditioning are your key to thriving in the coming years. So you're in. You join a local gym. Sure, you can do this by yourself. I mean, how hard can it be to read the instructions on the weight machines and jump on the stationary bike. Done right, it's not that easy. The statistics show that up to 90% of people who join a gym and commit to making real changes quit after just three months. It's depressing, but this episode of Behind the Swipe is not about physical health. Today we're talking about your emotional and relationship health. More specifically, getting back into the dating pool, building a profile and launching yourself into the online dating world can be even more intimidating than commencing an exercise routine, especially if you haven't dated in years. So many unknowns, so many questions, just as hiring a trainer to tailor your fitness program to your exact needs and capabilities can increase your odds of success dramatically. My guest co-host today, Jennifer Hurvitz, says the same thing is true for dating. Jennifer is known for her no-nonsense approach to all things relationship and is proud to say that she's made quite the career out of disastrous circumstances Her divorce. She's a relationship expert, dating coach, best-selling author and award-winning doing relationships right podcast host. Through two boys off to college, jennifer is now beginning the next phase of her life empty nesting it's Jenn 2.0. Her third book, bid Life Priceless a dating coach's guide to finally doing relationships right is out now. Jennifer keeps busy with helping her clients find love and creating content for her viral TikTok and Instagram platforms with over 8 million combined views. Join Jennifer on Forbes, oprah Daily Bustle, women's Health, scary Mommy and more. Jennifer, thank you for being here today. I am so excited about this one.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 3:29
I am so excited to be here. You have no idea. I've waited for this. I'm ready to go. Let's do it.

Hoyt Prisock: 3:34
I've got to tell you first, I have to confess to Podcaster Envy, because I've been listening to doing relationships right, I love it. You are just the consummate pro with this. Oh my gosh, I appreciate what you've been doing with that.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 3:49
Well, I have to tell you I feel the same way about you. I think I've listened to your show. I'm like God, he's really good at this. How long has he been doing this? Because he sounds so you sound really good professional, all edited and perfect. I'm like you know what I could come on the show. It's pretty awesome. I love it.

Hoyt Prisock: 4:06
I love it. Well, thank you so much. Let's just continue this love fest for the next one I would love to.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 4:11
I would love to Speaking of love and relationships.

Hoyt Prisock: 4:14
Yes, well, tell me how you got into all of these businesses that you're in.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 4:20
Oh my gosh. Well, I'll make it really simple. I got divorced. There you go. A period, end of story. Yeah, I did. I got divorced. I was a stay-at-home mom, I raised my kids and then I got divorced and I was like what am I going to do? What am I going to do? I have to do something. This was wow, oh my gosh. 10 years ago already I've been divorced. And back then you know everyone's like oh, I have the new book on nesting, I have the new book on. Oh shit, I had it then. I had it when you know what I'm saying. Like I was already doing this stuff 10 years ago and I needed to make a career out of something that I had, and that was it. So I started writing, I wrote my first book, I started my podcast, I wrote a screenplay, I shopped my TV pilot out in LA for a while, you know just kept going and building, and building. And here I am Make it short and sweet.

Hoyt Prisock: 5:08
And so a big part of what you're doing right now is individual coaching for people who are trying to get back into the dating world. That's my favorite part.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 5:17
Yeah, I started off as a certified divorce specialist and I was working in the divorce genre really type working with people going co-parenting and going through the divorce part. And then I realized, as my life evolved and I got into like a happy relationship, I needed to be in a happier spot. So then I started working with other people that were dating, you know getting out there because I'd been through it and I understood it and I was like I lived it. So I get it and I think my clients appreciated the fact that I was going through it with them. You know, dating and stuff.

Hoyt Prisock: 5:46
Tell me, Jennifer. So you run across people who say I'm a dating coach online, particularly on social, all the time, All the time. We're everywhere and you know, I don't remember that from like 10 or 15 years ago, I mean it's a new phenomenon.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 6:03
It is. And you know what? This is crazy. The divorce rate is not going up. I don't think it's getting higher. I think we're just getting more knowledge. We're getting more open about it. People are talking about it. People think they're looking for help. They're looking for assistance and the number one thing when you get done with the divorce and you're feeling better and you're doing the work on yourself and you're ready to get out there, everyone's looking around going okay, this is really different. Wait a minute, this is a totally different ballgame than when I was, before I was married. What the fuck am I going to do now?

Hoyt Prisock: 6:34
I need some help.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 6:35
you know, and I think that's where we came from. You know, the divorce coach came from just the need for, you know, people needed help. People needed help and I was like you know what. I've done this for a really long time and I know, and I've made some really huge mistakes and I don't want people to make the same mistakes I made.

Hoyt Prisock: 6:55
Oh, that's just perfect advice, right? I mean, if you had not stepped in those holes, you would not be able to tell people how to avoid them, right?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 7:02
Exactly, and I feel really strongly about this. I wouldn't go to a divorce attorney or a divorce coach that didn't go through a divorce. I just wouldn't, you know. So I feel like if you're a dating coach, you kind of have to go through the shit. You have to go through the awful relationships, you have to date the yucky ones, to understand how it feels when your clients are going through it. I feel strongly about that. So you know, it's kind of my jam. I get it. I get it, you guys.

Hoyt Prisock: 7:30
So, to tee this up, I'd had the opportunity to interview a woman that will call Amy, who had been divorced for a couple of years and found herself back in the dating pool, and I want to play just a little bit of her story and then have you and I come back and talk about it. The first thing I asked about was that divorce.

Amy: 7:55
Divorced. Yes, while this was three years, I was separated for about eight months before. My divorce was pretty quick, easy. We used a mediator Very amicable divorce.

Hoyt Prisock: 8:08
And so how long did you hold off before thinking about dating again?

Amy: 8:14
I didn't wait long because I got married at 22 and it was way too early. I knew my ex-husband since I was 12. We just started dating until right before my senior year of college and we were together a long time, although we were great friends and it was more of like a roommate situation really. And I look back at it and it's probably not what a marriage should have been Not that there's any special molds for that, but it really was not an ideal situation. So I was not really emotionally in the marriage that I wanted that connection with someone, and I come from a family where my parents had the most amazing marriage of all time. That always was the bar for me. So when I got separated I just wanted to date right away, like I just really was looking to meet and have that emotional connection with someone. So I was pretty quick out of the gate. I started dating, probably like after I had separated, like two months later, which was way too fast. Oh, I thought I was going to meet a ton of people. I was like this is going to be easy, you know, because when I got separated and my friends knew that I was unhappy or really was ready I'm young. I'm going to be 49 next month. My kids are older for my age. I have a career and everybody was like, oh, you're going to, this is going to be easy for you, I'll meet somebody. I was like, oh, I'm going to have no problem, I was in for the shock of my life. It is not easy. I don't care if you look like Christie Brinkley or the opposite, it is not easy. I think it's just, it's all personal, it's like a personal thing. It's not easy.

Hoyt Prisock: 9:55
So you went on Bumble and you went on Hinge and you had some success with all of that. But, amy, when did the disillusionment really start to kick in?

Amy: 10:03
I just felt like the type of guys I wanted to meet were not on the app. I wanted to meet someone who was established in their own life.

Hoyt Prisock: 10:13
Right.

Amy: 10:14
And I felt like it was just a lot of games and a lot of nonsense and nobody was just like, okay, let's just do this, let's meet, let's talk. And it was a lot of. I wasn't looking for a pen pal. I could have had 7000 pen pals by now. It's hard, it's really, really hard. I feel like if you know what you want, or you think you know what you want, you have an ideal. It's hard to get everything that you want, of course, and you can't provide certain things. That even trying to do that and after a while I was like this is just if it came upsetting after a while, like it was just a drag.

Hoyt Prisock: 10:51
Boy. Jennifer, I have heard that story in one form or another. How many times have you heard it? Four years.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 10:59
I know it breaks my heart. I'm sitting here and I'm shaking my head and I'm nodding and I'm saying, oh my gosh, that's every, basically every one of my clients that comes to me and they're frustrated and they're you know. They're to the point where they're like I don't want to do this anymore. Like dating has become work.

Hoyt Prisock: 11:15
Yes.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 11:16
It's a struggle. It shouldn't be a struggle and it shouldn't be work, but you know what it needs to be intentional. You need to be intentional when you're dating, but the problem is is that it's like what's that? There's that middle ground of when do I stop and give myself a break because I can't do this anymore? Yeah, and when do I hire someone who makes it more fun? Because that's really what I try to do. I try to make it more fun for you because it's really. It can be really a struggle.

Hoyt Prisock: 11:43
And a big part of that is just the internal work, and I want to get into, you know, the second half of the show. I want to get into exactly what your process is here. But so going back to Amy and listening to her story, gosh, I felt this myself when I was coming out, when I was divorcing, I was coming out of this and I felt like I had been trudging through the desert and all of a sudden, here's this what looks like an oasis out there, right, Absolutely. And you throw yourself in and it's a crazy wild ride. You have no idea what to expect, and so you know for her. She didn't have any idea what to expect, but based on what she was hearing from friends which is common also right that, oh girl, you've got this right. It should be so easy.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 12:34
You're beautiful, you're smart, you're this, you're that. You've got it all together, no problem. Get on the apps, go, go, go. And then you're inundated with a bunch of you know. It's just this crap of like you know things that you don't, that you don't want right. Well, there's we as dating coaches. We have tricks, there's a way to do what we'll talk about it later but, like, there's a reason why we're here, we know what we're doing right, and our job is to make sure that that that doesn't happen to you right out of the gate, because, look, it happened to me. I do the same thing. I was like, oh, this will be easy. I've been married for 13 years and I've got it all together. But it doesn't matter. It has to be both sides right, it has to be both sides, and you have to be in the right place and you have to be in the right frame of mind and you. And the new thing now is, the trend is you have to use your words and you have to say what you want ahead of time so you avoid all that those pen pals and the situation ships and the tech station ships. We can talk about that later too, but oh, if you're yeah, I mean it's just, it's a mess. But dating coaches know we know how to cut that off at the pass. So we, you don't you avoid off disillusionment ahead of time, you know.

Hoyt Prisock: 13:40
So in in in a post divorce dating world, it's typically you'll typically see this almost euphoria at the early stages, absolutely Because you know people coming out of these long-term relationships that might have been loveless, right? Or?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 13:56
even worse right.

Hoyt Prisock: 13:57
Even abusive, absolutely, and you and you get to this place and say, oh, somebody's paying attention to me. You know, I remember and this is this is not part of what I have to play for here with Amy, but she was talking about essentially she didn't define it as such, but it was a rebound relationship- Of course, and usually the first one I have.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 14:15
The gate is Yep, and.

Hoyt Prisock: 14:17
And she had thought that, oh, this is the new love of my life. Done, yep, I'm settled, I'm ready to go.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 14:25
Happened to me too, yep.

Hoyt Prisock: 14:28
And and and. In her case, it was the guy that she was seeing that said time out. Yep, you haven't sown your wild out yet. You don't know yourself in this, in this world, yet. That's right, so let's just take it easy.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 14:44
Right. And if she had, you know, if she had come to me, or if she'd seen a dating coach or a therapist, they probably would, or listen to a friend who had been through it, through a divorce, they probably would have all said the same thing Look at, you're right, you know, take your time, you take it easy, girl, hold on, see you in a year, see you when you're ready. But you know what, when you're going through it, you don't want to hear them, you want to do. No one's going to, no one's going to tell you what to do. You this, you, you know you're ready to get out there. But here's a point you have to go through it to understand it, right. So, no matter what happens, you're going to do what you want to do. Unfortunately, and whether that ends up with you getting hurt or getting a little stung, it happens right. But then it's funny because you come back two years later and you're like God, I wish I would have listened to Jen, wish I would have listened to myself, because I that first relationship but, oh my God, it was awful and blah, blah, blah. But you know what? It's true, you have to be ready. And it's not as much about. I tell people this all the time. My clients do. It's not about the, the when. It's about the why. Why do you want to date? What are you looking for? Why? What's your? What's your goal? Is it to be in a long-term relationship? Is it just casual sex? Is it just to you know? Fill that void, whatever it is, know your why. Know your why when you're ready to start dating.

Hoyt Prisock: 16:01
That's probably the most important piece of advice. That's right. If you go, if you come out of this with nothing else, understand your, why Know your why and look at it.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 16:10
If it's just for casual sex, go girl, go guy, do it. Just own that, but know that it's going to come with maybe a couple of repercussions down the road.

Amy: 16:17
Yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 16:18
You know you're not going to get into a long-term relationship with someone who you just want friends with benefits, right? So, don't beat yourself up down the road.

Hoyt Prisock: 16:26
That's great advice. So typically when, when somebody's so they, you just peak of euphoria and then you sort of trail off until this valley of drudgery, right? Is that typically when somebody says I might need some help?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 16:41
Well, you know what, hopefully, or they go to a friend, or they they are just in the, they see some dating, you know, on tic-tac and dating coach or whatever saying. And there's, and look at, there's so much free information out there. There's podcasts like yours, there's podcasts like mine. There are. There are so many oh my gosh books and everything. But I think you have to get, just like your intro said, you don't wait to be at your worst condition to find a trainer right. You find a trainer when you're like you know what, I need help, I need help with this, I don't know what I'm doing. And that's when you find a coach. That's when you say you know what. I think I really do need someone who's an unbiased, someone's unbiased opinion, right, sometimes friends can tend to be a little judgmental. You know your parents, your family. They're judgmental too. They mean well but you need someone who's going to be your cheerleader and build your confidence and your self-esteem, and that's what coaches do. That's our job.

Hoyt Prisock: 17:37
And, as we heard from Amy, the friends that were giving her this advice had not been walking in these shoes.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 17:44
No, they're not. And they see it from a different lens, right, every like divorces are like snowflakes, right, each one is very different. So, unless you go through it in your own, you're looking through a lens of your own, right. They're looking through it from the outsides saying, oh you're. You know, some people say the worst things. I wrote a chapter in my book about that. Like just toxic positivity, but like two, it's like you know the extreme. Like, oh, your ex-husband was horrible. Anyone you date is better than him, right. Like, okay, thanks, guys, right, that kind of stuff. And you're getting that. They don't mean to be mean, but it's hurtful, right. So you know, we got you, coaches got you.

Hoyt Prisock: 18:25
So in the dating coaching world it's very different from it's not matchmaking.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 18:30
No, it's not. I'm so glad you said that yeah.

Hoyt Prisock: 18:32
So help me understand sort of the real difference here.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 18:34
Okay. So as a coach, we set you up for success from the jump. We are like we know what we're doing, we know the tricks, we know the tips, we know all that good stuff, but we don't have a database. Okay, so we're not there. We work on one side of the relationship. I'm coaching just one person. So let's say, amy, I'm just coaching him. I'm helping her set up her profile, I'm helping her pick her pictures, I'm doing her bio for her, which is my favorite part in writing the bio, and that's like I my jam. I love it, but I don't have. I'm not going to set her up on dates. I don't have a database to look for her perfect match on the other side right, that's a matchmaker. So if you're looking for a matchmaker, that's a little bit more pricey. They vet people for you. They have a, you know, they set you up, you go out on dates, blah, blah, blah. That's not a coach. Now there are some matchmaking companies that also have coaching services. That's awesome too. You just have to make sure that you really do your research, because there's not one size fits all and some coaches are great with some people and some coaches are great with other people. Some are just for men, some are just for women, some are just, you know, just depends.

Hoyt Prisock: 19:42
Well, let me ask you about that, jennifer, because, well, I want to ask you two questions here. For the first one is there seem to be so many dating coaches out there and there's not a national organization that certifies dating coaches, so anybody can hang a shingle out there. How does somebody determine whether they've got somebody that really knows what they're what they're doing? How do they make that decision? Is it based on a tick tock?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 20:08
Well, I think it. First of all, it has to do with personality. You know if you click with the person, if you listen to their podcast and you think that they know what they're talking about. That's first. Secondly, there are life coaches and people that are certified. I'm a certified divorce specialist. I also have a degree from Michigan State and Family and Child Ecology and all that good stuff, and you can look up whatever. But I also think that a lot of clout comes from what they know, what they've done with their life experiences, to what they've gone through, what they're going through. Coaches need coaches too. So I also have a coach. I have a therapist, but I'll tell you this for free. I am not a therapist, so I work with therapists. So if someone comes to me like, let's say, amy and she's right out of a divorce and I do not think she's ready to date and I think that she's not in the right mindset, I have therapists that I will send my clients to first. So I work with really great therapists, because I'm not one and I'm not emotionally not certified to do that. So I think it's really important that you that if you see a coach, that they're honest and they don't take you just for the money, Like you know, if you're not in a place to date, they shouldn't be coaching you. I really feel strongly about you, know.

Hoyt Prisock: 21:23
So it sounds like that's very similar to you. Know, we opened the episode here with the analogy to physical fitness and a trainer, but if you present yourself after not exercising essentially forever, like the first thing that a trainer is probably going to do is say go see your GP, right, absolutely, yep, get checked out. Make sure you understand what your limitations are your blood pressure your cholesterol. It's going to prevent you from achieving your goal.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 21:52
Absolutely, because if you're not, if your mindset isn't such that you're prepared to get out there and date and you're not, you're not, you're not good with yourself, how can you be good with someone else, how can you give 100% to dating if you're still in that negative, horrible, angry space where you're still badmouthing your ex? Yes, I mean, if someone comes to me and they're like, oh my God, my ex husband is a piece of shit and he's a narcissist, and he's both, I'm like, whoa, okay, no one wants to hear that on a first date, period, period, you're not. No one wants a negative Nelly or a negative Nathan. People want to show up. You know they want. It's not fair to you, it's not fair to the date, it's not fair to anyone you're talking to. You have to be positive in order to get someone positive on the other side.

Hoyt Prisock: 22:36
It's your vibe Right right Manifest positivity. So you, know, and if somebody's throwing shade, it doesn't matter who they're throwing shade at. You see yourself as that, as that one that's being shaded somewhere down the line, right?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 22:49
Oh, my gosh right. I mean I've said it, I've sat across from dates and they're right ripping on their ex wife and I'm like, oh, I'm out of here.

Hoyt Prisock: 22:56
I can't say a nice word, I'm like check please, next gotta go.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 23:00
So yeah, I mean, you know it's just. But back to the dating. You know getting coaching and how do you? You just? I think you get a feel for it too. I think if you talk to someone, you reach out to a coach and they seem shady. You know it's kind of like dating.

Hoyt Prisock: 23:14
Yeah, yeah exactly. You develop a sense around that, right.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 23:18
You get that weird like icky feeling when your hair stands up in the back of your neck. Don't hire them, Don't use them.

Hoyt Prisock: 23:27
You know. So what about the difference between coaching men and coaching women? Because that's got to be really a very different experience. So different.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 23:34
Okay so men, I get male clients because they like to have a female perspective.

Hoyt Prisock: 23:39
Yes.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 23:40
So that's really cool for them because they're like tell me what you would do. Or okay, jen, you know this, you know, you know what this girl would do, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's really neat for them because they want to talk to a woman about women, which is that's awesome. But some guys like to go to a guy because they've been through it and they they feel the camaraderie and the bond to a male. Same with women. Right, like women are like Nope, I need to girl power. I got to get this girl knows what she's talking about. So I think it just depends on what you're looking for. I coach both. I love coaching both. It is different coaching guys. It is. It's different. I. You know they're way more into I'm just sorry to say this guys, they're way more into the physical attributes. First, yes they come to me that they're like I need a blind. She's got to be 510 like a wall. Okay, for sure. You know, and they're like she's got to be really good in bed. Right, she's got to be great in bed. She's got to be under 22. I'm like Okay, listen, you're 60. I'm not. Let's put that age up a little bit. Let's at least go 35. No, no, yeah. I'm like, oh, that's it, you're fired. Whereas the women come to me, they're like Okay, I want a kind soul, I want someone that's in. It is really interesting. I love it. It's a really interesting. I love this podcast, by the way, because I'm telling all my secrets, but it is a really interesting. You know, and you know, women are more like, and a lot of times they're like I need someone with a good job, financially stable, but but that's hard to, it's hard to. You're not going to write on your profile looking for someone with money, ladies yes for God's sakes, please stop. You know, like it just girls.

Hoyt Prisock: 25:20
So I at least in my experience, yes, and in the experience of a lot of the guys that I've talked to it's. It's like you come out of this divorce and you go put yourself back in the world and you're like a kid in the candy shop for a while, right Until, and then you realize that's not giving me the depth.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 25:38
I'm looking for. No, well, good, I'm glad to hear that, though, because, well, also, don't you get a lot of we can? I got to go forever. But there's the whole side of like the pictures don't look like who they are. Yes, and they're everyone's using filters and blah, blah, blah. That's a whole. I get that all the time from the guys. I went out with this girl. She looked nothing like her pictures. I'm like, well, okay, guys, yeah, but it's like you want, you want someone who's who's portraying who they really are right and dating coach. That's my job. I'm not. I hold my clients accountable. That's another thing. A coach is really good at holding their clients accountable. I'm not going to let you put up pictures that are not legit.

Hoyt Prisock: 26:19
Again back to the, you know, back to the trainer analogy, right, yeah, that's exactly right. So, jennifer, this is probably a great time for us to take a short break and then, when we come back, I want to hear from Amy again, and then I want to understand some of the specifics about how a good coach works with a client.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 26:39
Awesome.

Hoyt Prisock: 26:40
I hope you're enjoying behind the swing. It's been a true honor for me to hear from so many of you how much you appreciate the work we're doing, but we need your help to spread the word and grow our audience, and there are two things that you can do right now that will be so meaningful to us. First, apple and Spotify rely heavily on listener ratings and reviews to decide which podcast to recommend, so please do so in your app now. And second, if you know someone you think may enjoy behind the swipe, please share a link from wherever you listen. Thanks again for all your support. Now back to the show. All right, so we are back on behind the swipe with Jennifer Hurvitz. Jennifer Hurvitz is the podcaster behind doing relationships right. She's got bestselling books, she's got an amazing presence on Instagram and TikTok and she's one of my new favorite people. Thank you for being here again.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 27:42
I'm near my favorite person right now. This is so fun. This is like one of my favorite interviews, I think, of all time.

Hoyt Prisock: 27:49
I'm loving this. Well, thank you, I'm loving it. Thanks for having me so when I when I talked to Amy when we met in the first half, I didn't disclose that she ultimately ended up working with Jennifer, and so she talks about that a little bit and I was asking her a little bit more about her post coaching experience or the experience during the coaching process.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 28:16
So let's hear more from Amy.

Hoyt Prisock: 28:20
So when we heard from Amy in the first half of the show, she was beginning to feel frustrated and a bit disillusioned. She went on to talk about having read your book One Happy Divorce, which I think the full title of is One Happy Divorce Hold the Bullshit. And then, reaching out to you, she told me that working with you has really been transformative for her interdating life, not just in making the profile more authentically representative of who she was, but in really helping her focus on what she wanted and what her non negotiables were, and I want to talk about both of those topics with you, jennifer. But I asked her what she tells friends now about why they might want to consider working with a dating coach, and here's what she said A lot of these people are talking to friends and therapists and probably getting many as I did different pieces of advice and it's very confusing.

Amy: 29:12
And if you just take that small bit of money and you do, maybe one app and you have somebody that you could rely on who's not involved emotionally with you and isn't your friend, who didn't like Joe Schmo, who you dated or this or that, and somebody who's really coming with a blank slate, who could really help you and figure you out it just I think what you're gonna pay for at that point will help you successfully date over time and even your confidence, and someone to set you on a straight and narrow than being all over the place and helping on and off apps. That's what I did in the beginning. I was paying for this app. Nah, nah, nah. And really when you just break it down and it's like you go and it's like one stop shop and it's all there and I think it's better because someone's really helping you find your own situation, rather than a guessing game with friends or anything like that. We're just playing on the apps and getting frustrated.

Hoyt Prisock: 30:14
Jennifer, you can hear the difference in confidence in Amy. I have to tell you I'm getting emotional.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 30:20
I'm like tearing up when I get a call from a client or I get a. I really am getting emotional when I get an email saying that they found someone. Just recently one of my clients got engaged. It just makes me really happy, so I'm glad that she had a good. I mean. Thanks, hoyt, for sharing that, oh, thanks.

Hoyt Prisock: 30:40
I just love talking to Amy and I heard so many women's stories inside of her story. And that's why I wanted to kind of unpack it Like so she talks a little bit about this process with you and she talked about and I think this goes back to what we were talking about in the first half of the show, which was understanding what it is that you're really trying to do, and you frame that as understanding your non-negotiables. Tell me about non-negotiables. So I love the non-negotiable list.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 31:12
I'm really big on it. When I meet with my clients, we obviously talk about their dating habits in the past, their goals, their past relationships. We break down their personal health and wellness and their daily activities and their hobbies, and we I, you know they fill out a whole questionnaire with me and we talk in general. The first meet call it a meet, but then we talk about their non-negotiables and they make a list for me and I want them to get as specific as they possibly can about everything that they would if they found the perfect person right, and then what they will not negotiate. And sometimes people come, my clients come back with like 20 things that they're not going to negotiate. They're like I have 20 things. He can't be over, you know, he has to be over six feet, he has to have blue eyes, he has to have drive a Chrysler, whatever. And those are not non-negotiables. People, those are things that would be nice but non-negotiables to their core, to your core. Like must be a certain religion, must you know I get a lot of politics now that are very non-negotiable. Like must believe blah, blah, blah, you know, must have children out of high school. But like those are big, not like lives in the state, I won't travel long distance. Those are non-negotiables and those are important point, because those are things that I'm going to hold my clients accountable for. So, for example, if someone says to me I'm not dating anyone long distance, jen, I'm not going to do it, and then they get on matchcom and they meet this awesome guy and he checks all the boxes and he's amazing. And she comes to me and says, jen, he lives in Texas and she lives in New York and I'm going to try it. I'm going to try long distance dating. Oh no, oh no, she's not. No, not under my watch. Because you want to know why it's not going to work. She's not setting herself up for success at that point, because her non-negotiable list when she met with me the first time was I'm not dating long distance. So why in God's name would you come to me and tell me, even though he's hot and gorgeous and checks all the boxes, that you're going to date someone in Texas if you don't want to date long distance. Am I making myself clear?

Hoyt Prisock: 33:18
Yes, yes.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 33:21
So in this hypothetical I mean maybe it's not even a hypothetical, I mean whatever yeah.

Hoyt Prisock: 33:25
But in this kind of situation, if there's no way that this woman is going to uproot and move to Texas or she told me- yeah, you can't fit a square peg in a round hole, no matter how much lube you put on it, you can't beat it down.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 33:41
You just can't do it right. So there's nothing you can change, no matter how great this person is. If he has kids, for example, he has kids in middle school. And you are an empty nester and you tell me Jennifer, I'm not dating anyone that has kids in middle school. And then you come to me two days later and say I met a guy, he's amazing, he's my person and he has kids in middle school.

Hoyt Prisock: 34:03
You just see what I'm saying this is both.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 34:04
These are my clients. I've got clients that are like because what you're saying to me is I'm going to settle.

Amy: 34:10
Yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 34:11
I'm going to settle Jen, it's okay. I'm going to say no, you're not. Not when you're working with me or not because there are people out there that will fit those non-negotiables, and you can only choose five. Well, that's interesting.

Hoyt Prisock: 34:22
So tell me more about that. Yeah, because what struck me when I was first hearing this concept and it made so much sense to me was that. So I was listening to Arthur Brooks, who was the happiness expert that's. He's got a new book out with Oprah, and I just love listening to him. He was talking about how the online dating world creates this scenario where you can define your requirements all the way down to the nth degree, so that you're looking for someone just like you and that never serves you well Never serves you well.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 34:58
And that's the thing you cannot. You cannot sit there all day long and pick and pick and pick and pick, because that's a person who doesn't really want a relationship. That's a person who's making excuses internally for, like, why they really don't want to be in a relationship. Because if you say to me it has, this person has to have 20 of your non-negotiables. That person's not out there. That person is never going to be over six feet with blue eyes, living in Texas. Do you see what I'm saying? You've got to find someone. You've got to be like, plus the chemistry, plus the great in bed, plus what you've seen him saying, it's five non-negotiables, your big ones. I get it, I get right, I can work with that. But you're not going to be successful if you're constantly, you know, searching for perfection. Look for the perfectly imperfect right.

Hoyt Prisock: 35:47
Oh, that's a great way to say that yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 35:49
There's someone out there. There's people out there that are that are checking most of your boxes and, as far as chemistry goes, if there's not a spark on the first date, I don't care, go on a second one, go on a third one, if he or she checks so many boxes and fits those five, nine, like you see what I'm saying, you can build chemistry, especially at our age, especially after divorce. Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, you get to know someone and all of a sudden you're like, really in like, with their person.

Hoyt Prisock: 36:18
So what are some of the common non-negotiables that your clients come to you with, that they have at number five, that you're trying to demote down to six or seven or you?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 36:29
know a big one, a really big one, and people do not. My clients do not. They fight me to the nail for this one it's. I want to date. Someone Can't be bald.

Hoyt Prisock: 36:40
Really.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 36:41
It's a big one has to have hair, so or?

Hoyt Prisock: 36:45
They work with the guys with the baseball cap pictures, right?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 36:47
Every one of them, and you know, the problem with that is is that, first of all, they're crazy.

Amy: 36:54
My life is big.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 36:55
Because here's the thing, there are so many men. First of all, you're dating after divorce. Okay, let's be honest.

Amy: 37:01
Yes.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 37:01
We're in our fifties, right, we're late. Forties, fifties, sixties, you're going to have bald men who are fantastic. Okay, fantastic bald men. I'm like girls. For the love of whoever, please, do not swipe left on every bald man because, right or the other way I get, I get men who say they have to have big boobs or they must. I'm a breast guy. Okay, guess what. Guess what guys? Okay, please, for the love of I mean I just those are the, those are the non-negotiables that I'm like I'm not going to sell, I'm not going to do it, we're going to. Those are not. You've seen them saying physical things like that. But I have women who are adamant, adamant.

Hoyt Prisock: 37:43
So I love that. So now they've got their five right, you teach them basically how to filter everything through those five and then really look at the whole picture.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 37:53
Right, but I also help too, because here's the thing. So if someone comes to me and they say, I, I will own, I want to date my religion, I only want to date a Jewish man. And then they say to me, or Christian guy, or whatever. And they say to me, well, I'm going to go on matchcom or I'm going to go on hinge. There's so many people that are not that religion on those big right. But they make niche apps. Now they make the most niche niche, beautiful niche apps, j-date. They make must match for Muslims. They make Christian singles, they. So they. They pull everyone together. Just see what I'm saying. Even for herpes, if you have herpes, they have positive match.

Hoyt Prisock: 38:31
Right.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 38:31
Right, so, like you can find, you can set yourself up for success by finding an app that is perfectly fit for you. Thank you, you're not going to change someone. Does that make sense? I have clients that say to me that's okay, I'm going to go on match, I'm going to find a guy who's not Jewish, I'm going to, he's going to convert. Yeah, I'm going to go. Why are you putting yourself through that? Right, or, it's okay, I'll find someone who's um, you know, I got to think of it, you know not Christian who will convert. It's the same thing.

Hoyt Prisock: 39:01
You know what I'm saying, right?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 39:04
It's hard, you're, you're, you're making it difficult for yourself.

Hoyt Prisock: 39:05
Conversion to Catholicism or something right, right Like it's a right, or you know it's you know it's, it's, it's, it's it's.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 39:10
you know he has herpes, but it's okay, I'll work around it.

Hoyt Prisock: 39:13
You're kind of putting your own speed bumps in front of you, exactly.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 39:15
Don't make it hard for yourself.

Hoyt Prisock: 39:17
Make it easy for yourself.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 39:19
Do you know, like that's the kind of thing a coach would know. Like I have apps that are great for different reasons, right? I mean, and I know tricks to the apps and I can help with the algorithm, like all that stuff.

Hoyt Prisock: 39:30
Um, that's what we're there for, so so so let me ask you this is a a kind of a slight diversion, sure, but I've always been curious about, because you were talking about the different apps Do you, as part of your process with people, based on who they are and what they're looking for, do you tend to say these two sites might be better for you?

Jennifer Hurvitz: 39:55
Absolutely, absolutely. I'm so glad you you asked me that, yes, there are. So there, I think. I think there are a hundred and a hundred wrong. I don't know how many apps are there.

Hoyt Prisock: 40:04
Or 156.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 40:05
Oh, did you know that? By heart, 156? Okay, so in those 150, you, definitely there are. There are apps specific like better for better people, right? So, um, I was working with a client who is such a she's brilliant, she's a professional, she is, I hate to say, high quality. I hate very against that high quality. This one high quality, it's just. It makes no sense to me, but she considers herself high quality, whatever. She didn't want to waste any time, you know. So there's an app called the league that is specifically excuse me, specifically for high power people who consider themselves like in a different bracket, right, so it makes sense where you have to literally like, um, not audition but interview to get on the app. Okay, that was more her speed, that's what we did. Then there's your dopamine apps. I call them the dopamine apps, where you get that little rush of dopamine and, oh, it's so fun. Tenders, bumbles, the sliding apps those are really fun. I think everyone should pick a dopamine rush app and then one that they invest in, like a hinge or an okay, keep it, I'm a huge. I don't get kicked back by the way, I'm a huge, okay, keep it fan, I'm a huge hinge fan. I love coffee meets bagel. Those are. Those are the big ones that I like match but you have to know how to use them Right. There are so many, there are so many. But yeah, I mean like if you're gay, there's amazing apps for you. There's straight, I like there's just so there it's a world of apps, you know.

Hoyt Prisock: 41:34
Oh that that. That's great advice, because I was actually a little bit confused with that, because really, other than dabbling a little bit with hinge, I felt like my whole bumble experience was just so great for me.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 41:47
Oh good.

Hoyt Prisock: 41:47
That I never went anywhere else Like you're good, then stay there. Don't go anywhere else If you can.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 41:51
you know what people love bumble, because the girls have to make the first move. So I like bumble, I'm a big fan.

Hoyt Prisock: 41:58
Yeah, I really think for me it was kind of a crutch, you know it's like okay. I don't have to be quite that forward.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 42:04
Yes, yes, it's nice, Isn't it just to sit back and let someone else like you know it's nice it is I like bumble a lot and hinge I like because it's prompts which are kind of fun. So I just wrote an article for a bustle like the 18 prompts for a long term relationship and, like you know, I can, so I love helping people with their prompts, because it's not a bio.

Hoyt Prisock: 42:26
Yes.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 42:26
It's kind of more fun.

Hoyt Prisock: 42:27
Yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 42:29
Where okay, keep. It is like a deep dive, like they're giving you like 100 questions. You don't have to answer all of them, but you know that when you invest on your side, the other person's investing on their side.

Hoyt Prisock: 42:38
Right. Well, that's a really good point right, and people talk about that with the free versions versus paid versions, right? Yep, same thing. So the paid, and I want to connect with somebody that's on the page because I want it to be that important to them.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 42:53
Exactly. You're both intentional, you're both intentionally showing up, you're dating, you're putting the money in, you're putting the effort in. That's the same thing that people say about taking pictures. You know, when you put effort in on your side and you get professional pictures taken, people are like, oh my God, I can't believe she did that. Well, she's putting work into her profile. I can also teach you how to take a really good selfie. I mean I've taken selfies where my photographer will call me and she's like Did you switch photographers? I'm like no, it's a selfie, it's easy. It's easy to take a really good selfie. These days.

Hoyt Prisock: 43:22
Yeah, that's fantastic. Take me back to the beginning of the process. So somebody is saying, hmm, this Jennifer sounds like somebody that I would really resonate with. So somebody reaches out to you. How do you start that process? Because it's not that you don't take on anybody that just comes to you. You've got to feel that connection as well.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 43:46
Yes, so I'm a little different because I'm what he just says. I'm not like a hard cell. I don't reach out to people, I don't, I just want. I really want people to like being with me and I'm like want to. I want them to enjoy the process of dating and so when someone reaches out to me, I do like I call them meats and I also got dates meats. I don't believe that dates should be first date should be longer than 20 minutes, half an hour. I have a whole. That's a whole different thing. But yeah, so someone will reach out to me and they will set up a call and we'll talk and we'll chit chat and we'll figure out what package works for them. I have packages, but I also have something really interesting that I love, that most of my clients love. It's called an ask me anything. I'm giving this away, don't, don't be, still, it's everybody. It's an ask me anything session. So for 99 bucks you can get on a call with me for half an hour and ask me anything, just ask me anything. So people love that because it's not a commitment. You don't have to buy 12 packages or 12 sessions and let's say that you're on a date or you have a date coming up or you just want on a date and you are freaking out. You don't know what's going on. You can literally go on my calendar book and ask me anything sesh and talk about it. Yeah, and people love it and I love it.

Hoyt Prisock: 45:05
I mean, that sounds perfect because they can just save up. Hey, here are the things I'm confused about.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 45:09
Yes, they make a list and what they do is I tell them cram everything you can into that half an hour, and they love it. I also have something that I think is really cool. It's a text only so for you know, whatever it is, for a week of texting you can text me during certain hours, like I think it's like eight, nine in the morning till nine at night. Yeah, anything you want, anytime you want. So let's say that you're on a date and I've had guys do this. Or they're on a date and they're like okay, she just went to the bathroom and she said something that I think is really I'm not sure, but I think I'm like, okay, no, she did not mean that, you know like protecting on the date, which is a really cool. Guys love it, you know, because they're like I need help right now. Or the girl's like I think he wants me to, he wants me to pay the bill. I'm totally not paying the bill. I'm like, okay, that kind of shit, which is real fun. So you know, if you're it's, it's it's less of a commitment, which I think people love.

Hoyt Prisock: 46:00
Yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 46:01
But I also have sessions. You know your typical packages and that kind of stuff.

Hoyt Prisock: 46:05
Yeah, well, let's say that somebody wants all Jennifer all the time. Oh yeah, they can get me, I'm going to go in all in All in.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 46:11
That's my package, is called the all in the all in package. Yeah, they get 12 of whatever nine sessions and we meet once a week and I'm real flexible or whatever, but they get to do. I do their bio, I write their bio, which is honestly got my favorite part and we pick apps and sometimes I'll date for you, sometimes I'll actually go into your app. I have done this a lot. I will go into the dating app and actually pick the. I always pick the pictures you send me the pictures. I'll fix the pictures I edit, but I don't use filters.

Amy: 46:39
Yes.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 46:40
You know I'll help you pick out what you're going to wear for your whatever. I'm very honest, very honest, because that's my job. If I don't like a picture, I'm telling you to take it down and then I set you up basically for success. I mean, I do all of your you know non-negotiables with you. We talk every that's my job and then you know, and then there's the feedback part of it. Oh, I love it. Yes, yes, yes.

Hoyt Prisock: 47:01
So tell me about that post date or post meet, yeah, debrief kind of thing, and what it is that you try to get your clients to gain from that, to learn from that.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 47:13
Well, first of all, my clients. Typically after they go, hey, that's so sad because I lose them. I lose them when they meet someone. So I'm like you know, it's sad, I'm at your goal. And that's my goal. I'm like, okay, I'm happy, I'm happy, and then we're friends. We always end up being friends ever, but it's fine, I want to keep them focused. My job is to save you time and energy and keep you focused. I don't want them in situationships. I don't want you to be a pen pal to someone. So if someone, if my client, comes to me and they're like, well, we've been talking in the app for three weeks, I'm like, oh no, no, note that I haven't done my job. I have you. It's very methodical with me. You meet someone on the app, right? You chit chat for a little bit, you get off the app onto, you start texting. You set up a FaceTime or a Zoom call, you meet in person for 20 minutes and that's it. It's within a week. If someone doesn't ask you out within a week, when you're dating, when you're working with me, it's a no go. I don't want anybody wasting time. There's no reason. You know, if you're talking to someone and they're not giving you, they're not responding to you, they're not giving you feedback and they don't want to reach, they haven't asked you out, you're done.

Hoyt Prisock: 48:21
Right right, they're just in it for a different kind of entertainment. That's exactly right.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 48:25
That's exactly right, and so you're not. I'm not gonna let you waste your time. That's basically so. If you, if you call me up and we're talking for your next meeting and you're like I'm talking to three guys, no, you're not. I'm talking to three guys. You're either out with one of them at a date that week or we've moved on. You don't have a lot of people you're talking to when you're dating, when you're working with. Does that make sense?

Hoyt Prisock: 48:48
Yes, it does. Yeah, I move quick. Who are dating coaches? Not for we know who they're for. We can talk a lot about that. Oh, that's a great question.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 48:59
They're not for people who are. Can I be really honest, if you're not willing to hear a little bit of you know I'm not a tough love coach, but I'm kind of a tough love coach you have to be flexible and you have to be okay with some critique. You know it's hard, it's hard, it's hard to hear why you're not. You know, cause a lot of it is very personal.

Hoyt Prisock: 49:26
Yes, it's hard, it has to be.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 49:28
It has to be. I think if you are set in your ways and so set in your ways that everyone that you go out with is not your person and I'm not going out with him again and she's just not my type. If you're that person where there's no one in the universe that's going to fit your, then dating is it doesn't matter if you have a coach, it doesn't matter if you're on my, it's just not.

Hoyt Prisock: 49:52
If you're not ready for it, you're not ready, if you're not ready to evolve in this process.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 49:58
Yeah, if you haven't done work on yourself and gotten to the place where you are healthy and ready and in the right, in a positive mindset. And also, let me just say this if you're scared, if you're anxious, if you're really. I have a client that I worked with for a while and she's just like Jen. I love the bio you wrote. She had professional pictures taken. She's a beautiful woman. She's not ready. She's not ready and she's just like Jen. I appreciate you for not pushing me. I'm not going to push. I'm here, I'm sitting here, I have nowhere to go, and she's like can I get back to you? And I said, my God, yes, she's just not ready.

Hoyt Prisock: 50:38
Yeah, just put it on the shelf. Put it on the shelf. She's really nervous. You will know when you're ready.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 50:42
Yes, I know she's scared. I think a lot of women also are very apprehensive. It's a scary. I mean in my book I wrote about my 10 worst dates I ever went on.

Amy: 50:52
They were scary there were a couple of scary dates.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 50:53
Yeah, I mean, it's not easy, it's scary.

Hoyt Prisock: 50:57
No, it's not easy, and while it is a lot of work, it can be just real. The work itself can be rewarding.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 51:07
Yes, and I met my boyfriend on Match.

Hoyt Prisock: 51:10
On Match.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 51:11
I did.

Hoyt Prisock: 51:12
Congratulations, thank you.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 51:13
Six years. Six years and a little bump in the road, but yeah, six years. Six years, a little break there, but you know, everyone needs a break sometimes.

Hoyt Prisock: 51:22
Everybody needs a break Even coaches grew up. Well, Jennifer, I wish we could talk for another hour here.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 51:31
This has been so fun for me, so fun.

Hoyt Prisock: 51:34
Listen. I've learned so much from this. I really appreciate your sharing your wisdom and giving away all the good stuff here on my program.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 51:41
I'll teach you how to take a selfie. Don't worry, there's a trick.

Hoyt Prisock: 51:46
So, before we go, all people how they can get your book, how they can find you online. Gosh, I've made it really easy, really easy.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 51:55
My website, jenniferhervitzcom. Everything's there, everything. You can connect to everything. So that's it. Thank you for having me.

Hoyt Prisock: 52:03
So, as a follower on Instagram and TikTok, go check out her website at jenniferhervitzcom. Get her book. This is a fantastic lady and you all know that by now, after almost an hour here. So, jennifer, I appreciate your being here with us.

Jennifer Hurvitz: 52:19
Oh, I loved every minute. Thank you, I thank you.

Hoyt Prisock: 52:24
I have to confess that when I started working on this episode, I was a bit of a skeptic about the value of retaining a coach to help you find love online. I suspicion that this world was filled with hustlers and charlatans, all trying to separate the most needy and vulnerable among us from their hard-earned money. And while some of that may be out there in this wild west of the internet, jennifer Hurvitz made me a believer. She is so down to earth and so authentic, while still not hesitating to speak the hard truths and hold her clients to account. I see it, I feel it, I get it. Yes, you can do this on your own, and most people will. But you can also climb Mount Kilimanjaro without a Sherpa, but I don't recommend it. Thanks again to Jessica Hurvitz for sharing all her tips and insights. I learned a ton and I hope you did too. I'm White Price Ock. Join us again next week for another episode of Behind the Swipe. Until then, swipe fearlessly. of behind the swipe. Until then. Swipe fearlessly.Hoyt: 0:03