Episode 11 - What Men Get Wrong in Their Dating Profiles

What Men Get Wrong in their Dating Profiles

I hear from so many women that men just don't know how to build a great profile online.  In fact, worse than that...  I hear, "What were they thinking????"  
In this episode, three online daters tell us what men are doing wrong in crafting their online dating profiles and what they can do to increase their chances of online success.  Megan, Shay and Kathryn (along with a cameo appearance by Sharon) don't hold back as they critique the state of the art in fish pictures and "phoned in" profile efforts.

This week’s Guest Co-Hosts

Megan, Shay and Kathryn

This week’s panel includes a roundtable discussion by three of our “anonymous” daters

Transcript:

Hoyt: 0:41
Sometimes you just have to have the difficult conversations, you know? The ones that deliver the really bad news. If you're a man in midlife or beyond, and you're on the dating apps. This difficult conversation is for you. Have a seat. Make yourself comfortable. You may not want to hear this, but there are people that care about you. And we are. Concerned. This, my friend. Is your intervention. Here's the thing. You've been doing your dating profile. All wrong. So wrong. In fact that you're at serious risk of dying alone and lonely. Is that what you want? Is that what you deserve? What. What's that you say I'm getting dates. My profile is fine. That may be right. In the same way that a stopped clock is right. Twice a day. The problem isn't you. It's the way you're presenting yourself online. 15 seconds. That's about how long you have the attention of the woman on the other side of that screen. Before they make that fateful decision. She knows that there are a hundred other guys. Behind you in line. What makes you stand out in those precious few seconds? What will peak her interest and make her just curious enough to swipe right. Hint, it's not the photo of you with that prize fish you caught. And it's not the bathroom selfie. It's time to get serious, man. You wouldn't try to sell a million dollar house with two faded Polaroid pictures and a mimeograph fact sheet. It's time to up your game. Today on behind this wipe. We're talking about what men get wrong in building their dating profiles and more importantly, How they can get it right. Now I don't claim to be an expert on this topic. And frankly, I'm skeptical of anyone that does make such claims. No. The real expertise on this topic lies with women on the other side of that screen. The ones who are making the split second decisions on your profile. So today I'm joined by three women who have made and are making those decisions. I sat down with Shea, Megan and Catherine for a lively discussion on the good, bad, and the ugly of men's dating profiles. We'll also hear from Sharon whose take no prisoners approach to dating profiles. Should serve as a much needed, wake up call for those who have basically chosen to phone it in, on their dating profile. So today we are going to talk about men's online dating profiles. And the impression that I've gotten from all of the women that I've talked to, I mean, all of the women that I've talked to is that universally men present themselves poorly online. And I wanted to explore this. I wanted to explore. Why that is, how it manifests itself, and what men can do about it. we're going to change the format a little bit today because I'm going to talk to three of our daters, some of whom you've heard before on this podcast, we are going to understand their impressions. and their recommendations for how men can do better in presenting themselves online. Megan. tell us a little bit about yourself.

Meghan: 4:24
Well, I'm in Atlanta. I'm a real estate investor and I, have been dating online off and on for probably, oh, dare I say a decade in between. serial monogamy. I feel like I have a pretty good overview of what is out there and you know, I like to tell people what to do, so I'm happy to be here.

Hoyt: 4:48
I love that. And Shea, you might remember from an earlier episode of Behind the Swipes. Shea, welcome.

Shay: 4:55
Thank you for having me. So I was a stay at home mom for a long time and got back into, dating after a long marriage, and, I got lucky. And, met a lot of guys, had a lot of fun, I'm now helping friends, sort through their men, and like Hoyt says, there are some issues.

Hoyt: 5:13
And Catherine. We have Catherine here, and you may recognize Catherine's voice.

Kathryn: 5:23
I work for a financial firm and I've been divorced for a couple of years. but because I work in an industry where I meet a lot of men organically, I haven't been online that much, but, I've been on long enough to know that, these guys need our help.

Hoyt: 5:42
And not only that, Catherine, but I understand that you've got the reputation as the nice divorce girl whisperer. and have helped a number of people build their profiles and create successful relationships online.

Kathryn: 5:59
so I kind of have a knack for. taking pictures and things like that. So, it was a way that I could get an inside look at what other people were doing before I actually took the plunge and went online myself.

Hoyt: 6:13
I'm also going to say that you also have a knack for understanding men.

Meghan: 6:17
You guys aren't that difficult to understand. That's the truth.

Hoyt: 6:19
Well, you understand men and you still love them.

Kathryn: 6:22
God bless them.

Hoyt: 6:24
So I wanted to set the tone for the conversation that we're going to have today by playing for you. A clip of an interview that I did with Sharon, who couldn't be with us today. But i think that her perspective Represents i think what a lot of women generally think about men's profiles online

Sharon: 6:42
a lot of these men are really disgusting. I mean these guys, what are they thinking? Like get a haircut. How about some grooming? How about some teeth whitener. How about put on a nice shirt? How about smile? present yourself? There's just no effort in putting no effort into the way they look. Even if you're a construction worker or a cop, I don't care. don't present yourself like a dirt bag, a baseball cap backwards. I mean, they just have no pride it's sad to me to watch, I. Such minimal effort from men in general, and this is how they're gonna approach attracting a good woman

Hoyt: 7:26
All right. so let's kick this off. I want to talk about Uh, what you see when you open up whatever app you're on, whether it's Bumble or Hinge or Match or whatever, and you start scrolling through what they think might be a good match for you. And I'm going to start with you, Megan, like what stands out for you when you start scrolling?

Meghan: 7:53
I a while ago, I decided that I wasn't going to be a swiper. I was only going to be a swipey because I didn't, I would get super depressed at the volume of people out there that I felt like, Ooh, that's rough. That's rough. That's rough. And I would get super depressed about what was out there. So I, I was like, okay, I just need to wait till they swipe on me. And so I will only have the paid version where you've got the beeline so you can actually. at least it narrowed it down to, people who are already interested. I I'm very quick at it. Like I'm quick at everything. I'm quick at making purchases. I'm quick at finding things that I like. And, there's just a ton of things that turn me off immediately. And that's probably why I'm still single. But one of them is, you know, the dreaded fish picture. We can't have an episode without talking about the holding of the fish, which I will never understand. And I don't know if men, see that on other people's, profiles or I did it again, other people's profiles, or they just are really wanting to show that they can provide for the family with the fish. That thing is so ubiquitous now. It's everywhere. And then I think, is this a joke? So

Hoyt: 9:15
Well, well, what I want to know is, do they have like, A fish over here and two loaves of bread and that's my...

Meghan: 9:22
honestly, if the loaf of bread was there, I'd be like, all right, that guy's, at least he likes French bread or he likes a bakery, or maybe there's something I can

Kathryn: 9:29
I'm, so I want to tell you something, Megan, that I learned about the fish. because I asked that question point blank. Like why, why do all these guys take a picture of them holding like a dead fish or a dead deer? I think it's because they don't have pictures of themselves. And so like where they're the only one in it. And, it's not working for them, but, but that's why they're doing it. they need to ask their friends to take a picture of them.

Meghan: 9:57
Good point. Good point.

Hoyt: 9:58
Shay, Now, have you had the fish picture experience?

Shay: 10:02
I've never had a fish picture experience, but I know it's out there. I've seen it with my friends, so I know, and I think you're right. I think guys don't have pictures of themselves that obviously it's a trophy picture. They're proud of it, it's just a bad choice for meeting someone the first time. when you see somebody not taking time for pictures, you wonder how much time they take with other things. I mean, you just, if this is how much they're investing in a relationship, how much time are they really going to invest? And so for me, that was the big question when I saw a really bad, but I know they're not good at it too. So it was that whole,

Kathryn: 10:37
But you never know, are they not good at it? Or do they just not really care enough to put their best out there for us?

Shay: 10:44
and that's the thing. Let's be clear. If we're going to invest in this, invest in it, go full in, because that's the only way. We have 10 seconds to decide. so you better be invested. And I think women understand that more than men do.

Hoyt: 10:57
Well, it's a marketing brochure at the end of the day, right? Your, this is a 15 second commercial for, Joe Schmo.

Kathryn: 11:07
I know they're not always just trying to get it done and being pretty thoughtless and not very creative. I think sometimes they truly... aren't very creative. Maybe this is the best they have. and they may be a great guy, but they're don't have an eye for what looks good. And case in point, all of the bathroom mirror selfies, like, dude, you may look great, but you need to put the toilet seat down. You know, like that's a cue. Number one is, I don't want to see that. or just all of your What is it called? Four hem or his hems? Pills on the bathroom counter? No! No! Just no.

Meghan: 11:49
yeah. Review the shot before you put it up. You gotta look at the whole picture.'cause I zoom in on stuff too. Like I'll do a screen grab and then zoom in to see like, what's that on the floor over there? Is that a cat? You know? Or is like, is that his underwear? Or why does he have, you know, three barbells or whatever the thing is. I don't miss much on that front.

Kathryn: 12:17
what about the guys that do the, come, Heather look and they're like stretched out on their bed or the.

Meghan: 12:25
I think some, at some point, it must have got very trendy to do one of those like, lay on my bed kind of things, like you could be looking at me from this angle, lucky you. But if you're not a male model, you shouldn't be doing that one.

Shay: 12:40
It's probably not a good angle, no matter what they, how they're going at it.

Hoyt: 12:44
You have to remember that guys don't see other guys profiles, So, they have no idea their competition is. They have no idea what level they need to hit. to represent themselves appropriately online, right?

Meghan: 13:02
Yeah, they're not as obsessed with social media. Like, we're always looking at other women posing. We're constantly looking at that when, during the day on social, in magazines, before there was online publication. So we are keenly aware of how we look in photographs. To the point where almost everyone puts a hand on a hip, and turns three quarter, and puts one leg,

Kathryn: 13:25
y'all, y'all do that too?

Meghan: 13:27
We learned that in like third grade.

Hoyt: 13:32
how do you expect to attract something that you're not putting out there?

Shay: 13:36
exactly.

Meghan: 13:37
I mean, that is the lesson for everyone, not just men is, what do you want as in a partner and how do you present yourself like the kind of person you're trying to attract?

Shay: 13:48
And I guess I've thought that I may, if a guy didn't know how to do this, or it was his first time, he would get help. I mean, you would think you would ask somebody to help you or your friends or a girl or something gets started somehow. I mean, don't just, it's a pretty big, if you're really trying to meet a nice, attractive woman, and you would think you would. Give it your best

Kathryn: 14:09
So I actually have had several guy friends ask me to help them with their pictures and their profile and stuff. I can understand. I mean, I can imagine that there's guys that aren't going to say, Hey dude, will you take my picture and look at my dating profile? I mean, I get that. I get that. But gosh, ask a girl, we're flattered. We, you know, we want you to be successful. We want to cheer for you.

Shay: 14:36
You know somebody who would take a picture of you from farther away than your steering wheel I mean so many people take it in the car that is just not a good angle guys.

Kathryn: 14:45
When you see things like that, I am a little bit suspicious. So I look at that and think, oh, they're hiding that they're doing this. So is he really single, or, is he even comfortable with the fact that he's You know, dating, because I don't want to have to clean up after that.

Shay: 15:02
I want to see the full color brochure for this marketing presentation I want some effort into it, I want to know that you are invested somehow in this process because I was,

Meghan: 15:13
the photos are the entry point, but I read everything before I, if there's an interesting photograph, I look at all the photographs I deduce, okay, is this just one good shot? Are there more, look at all the different. possible scenarios they've put themselves out in. And then I read everything where they're from. their sign, all of it before I swipe, right?

Hoyt: 15:36
let's talk about that because that's an interesting point, Megan, is about the breadth of photos that you want to see out there. It's not just, maybe they use the corporate headshot, maybe they use a picture with buddies. What else fills out the profile of who this person is for you?

Kathryn: 15:56
guys, you're going to have to take a photo, uh, you're going to have to take a selfie or have a friend take one. You're going to have to add that into your little portfolio there.

Meghan: 16:08
And it's so easy to have a little tiny tripod for your phone. Some that, and you know, you can, it has a self timer on it. An iPhone or any cell phone has a self timer. Find it. Put the camera down, get a nice angle of yourself, put yourself in some decent clothes, and take a bunch. Take a bunch till you feel comfortable, and you get a good one. Yeah.

Hoyt: 16:31
I want to get into what they should be doing in the second half of the show. Let's round out, what they're not doing right. So we said no fish pictures, no come hither pictures from the bed, no bathroom selfies, no pictures with... I'm going to add one here because I've actually seen this is where somebody's had a picture with their ex and they're, and it's blacked out.

Meghan: 17:00
The worst.

Kathryn: 17:01
Wait, here's another one. Here's another one where they've taken a picture of a picture. I mean, badly. I mean, I know sometimes the pictures in a frame and the, it's, you can't really get it out. But if that's the case, that picture is probably too old anyway.

Hoyt: 17:16
let's talk about misrepresentation in your photos. Online.

Meghan: 17:20
Well, yeah, in front, you know, getting off of a private plane when, you know, you basically, you out, you didn't, you weren't on the plane, you were just like walking by and took a picture of that or in front of, somebody else's Lamborghini things like that. I don't know that there's an upside to posing in front of someone else's asset because when you show up, you're not going to have that car. Or the plane, probably. Unless it's really your plane, in which case I'd probably swipe, right? But, I like a full range of casual to dressy, and in between. I wanna... Know that they clean up nice, that they can put a tie on, a tux. A tux would be ideal, but again, I'm clearly shallow. I'm not really.

Kathryn: 18:08
You

Shay: 18:08
You like what you like. What are you gonna say?

Meghan: 18:12
No, it's possible. It doesn't have to always be like that. But if someone is constantly just in sleeveless tank top or a t shirt, then there's not a range there of where

Kathryn: 18:26
kind of, I agree with you. I figure, I figure that the t shirt and workout singlet, I figure like that guy, that's all he's going to wear. I've already had one of those in my life, and I'm going to pass. This time for sure. I need some variety in your attire.

Hoyt: 18:43
but we've talked a lot about photos. Let's talk about how they talk about themselves. I would venture to say that the majority of men are not used to emoting online, And yet, here you're trying to show all of yourself. men, historically, particularly in this age group that we're talking about, Have been taught never to show vulnerability, Do not show weakness. that's absolutely wrong. And so that filters into all of their communication from a text standpoint. So what have you seen in dating profiles that are red flags in how they express themselves?

Meghan: 19:29
thoughtful text is more important and poignant is more important than a lot of information. But if someone says very pat answers, one that drives me bonkers, and I see it a lot, is I want all that life has to offer. It's such a pat phrase, all that life has to offer. What does that actually mean? Dig into it. What are you looking for? Not big, broad strokes, what everyone else is saying,

Kathryn: 20:03
I am such a sucker for smart and funny. You know, a clever guy. I can overlook, maybe a bathroom selfie or two if, if you're smart and funny and not wearing a hat.

Shay: 20:18
that's exactly right. I mean, it's all a package. It's all, it's a brochure. I will read the whole brochure, but it better have a good feeling at the end,

Meghan: 20:27
But you have to have that opener or you won't even get to the text. If there's not a decent photo, you won't get to the text.

Kathryn: 20:34
I'm thinking about, in one of your episodes, one of your guests said, be aware of the guy that says, no drama. when you're telling me what I need to be, or you're telling me, it's like an interview, you know, you're telling me the cut that I need to make. And, listen. You're not telling me anything about yourself. I'm not even ready to apply for that job, and you're already, giving me all of your, points that I need to fill to even get the interview.

Meghan: 21:02
Agreed. Yeah. And I think if they come out of the gate, I see a lot that say me and a list of attributes, you a list of attributes.

Hoyt: 21:14
Oh, that's funny. Actually.

Meghan: 21:16
And it's like, well, yeah, no, it's not thoughtful. When I first filled out my, profile years ago, I had a good friend who said, you need to treat it like it's a job and think about it. Don't just write the first thing that comes to your mind or put the first photos that are in your. photo library up there. You have to think about it. Take it seriously. And so I did. And I do. I, when I write my own little bio, it takes me a long time to write that because I, I want it to represent not only who I am, but what I'm looking for without it being a list of characteristics about another person or. Something they have to jump over to get to me. It's just more conversational,

Kathryn: 22:04
to Megan's point, you get out what you put in. if you put the profiles that somebody's put some extra time into, you can see that and they're going to get more attention than the ones that just slap it together. that's a whole different kind of attention.

Hoyt: 22:20
So, so can you guys, can you guys tell that?

Kathryn: 22:23
Absolutely.

Hoyt: 22:24
Is that an instant read for you? How much time and effort they've put into crafting their profile?

Meghan: 22:31
Yeah, we'll have very little text. And it doesn't take long to upload a photo. And if they're just a random grouping of pictures, it's pretty evident that they didn't spend time curating those.

Hoyt: 22:44
and what does that tell you, Megan?

Meghan: 22:46
says... I mean, it tells me they're... Not taking it seriously, and they don't want to present themselves, or they want something easy

Kathryn: 22:55
they're not willing to, uh, uh,

Meghan: 22:57
and authentic.

Shay: 22:59
Put the effort in. It's an effort. Everything good takes effort. maybe they're not really good at it, but you need to seek help. I mean, and maybe, and over time, maybe they will. I mean, if it doesn't work, you know, who knows where they are on this journey, but at some point you need to ask for help because You You know, and I know, Catherine, you've helped people with their profiles. I've helped people with theirs. It's, you gotta sit down and think about it. What are you trying to, what are you trying to portray here on this, on, on this brochure? What are you selling? And, how good do you wanna look? You know? But without going overboard, you don't wanna present yourself as something that you're not either. I've seen guys say in their profiles, no filters, please don't use filters on your pictures. They want you raw. They just want to see you. everybody wants a little something different, but we all want the truth. We want it all to be you.

Meghan: 23:49
Authenticity.

Shay: 23:50
Yeah, we just want it to be real and, whatever that is. And so that's all we ask, but it needs to be something more than they're giving us. It's just their face in the car and then a few words and that's not enough.

Meghan: 24:04
It's funny that we're all saying, do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that, and then we say, but we want you to be authentic. So it's a bit of a mixed signal in that, I imagine. Right. Hoyt.

Shay: 24:14
There's a fine line of being lazy. you know this is not a good picture, and so just put it here. That's fine. But have a couple of pictures. there's just sort of some standards, that otherwise we can't really tell. We only have a few seconds to really be able to make a choice, and there's a hundred people behind you. and when you only have a few seconds to make a decision and you have to have some criteria to go by, are you going to go with the shiny brochure or the one that was cobbled together as a science fair project? you have to choose on something. And unfortunately, this is a visual aid and you're going to be graded on that

Kathryn: 24:53
that is such a great point, but you know, Hoyt, the other thing that I'm thinking of, as we're, the three of us are sitting here talking, we are three. women from three totally different parts of the country. And yet we all have the same, universal concept that we're all talking about. You know, we're all looking for three different kinds of guys, but we kind of have the we have the same, the same offenses we're complaining about.

Shay: 25:23
there are great guys out there with bad profiles and they're just, they're not going to get the playtime. And so, those are the people you want to help. You know, you need, and I help my friends swipe and I'll see a guy and I can, you see the diamond in the rough. He's a good looking guy, it's a horrible picture, but they're like, yeah, no. And you swipe and I'm like, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, go back. Because you can sometimes see, and you want to give them a chance, but, some of my friends are very, they're hardcore, they're cutting, so quickly, you just, you need to be 100 percent from the get go.

Kathryn: 25:57
I'm not the kind of girl, honestly, that's looking for the perfect looking guy, but I do want a guy that's, smart and fun. So if your pictures say, you know, that you're fun, I can picture that working for me. I mean, not everybody is. Ryan Gosling, so you just do the best that you can with what you have to work with and you might come across somebody like me that's really not, drawn to, appearance, but I'm looking for a happy heart and, um, yes.

Shay: 26:35
together a little bit. Just kind of put together. And looks like they're trying. So, yeah. It's really not asking for much, but apparently we need to restate our expectations here.

Meghan: 26:49
Yeah. Well, well rounded. You don't want someone who is one dimensional that only has sport pictures. on their profile. I guess there are sporty women out there that that's super duper important to them. But if that, when I see photos of every sport you were, have ever done, I get that, as you said, Catherine, that maybe that was the only time someone photographed them because it's such a passion of theirs. But if I see all that, I think, look, they spend a lot of time. Doing sports. When are they gonna have time to go out with me or spend time with me

Kathryn: 27:25
Do they have a real job? I mean, if you're playing soccer all the time and, you know, lifting weights all the time and riding your, cycling across the world. Crossing the finish line? When, when, dude, when do you go to work?

Meghan: 27:40
How, yeah, how am I going to fit in and how are you going to pay for it? Not me, how are you going to pay for yourself? I'm not a sugar baby, I promise. Who did it?

Hoyt: 27:50
All right. That's a good point to take a break in the second half of the show. I really want to help guys get this right. Because there are a lot of great guys, as you pointed out, Shay, that simply don't understand how to put their profile together in a way that accurately represents themselves and attracts the kind of people that they're really looking for. So when we come back from the break, that's what we're going to dig into. So we are back on Behind the Swipe and I have three daters who are sharing their information about the kind of profiles that men put up and how to improve them. So in the first half of the program, we really focused on photos and text and what guys tend to do wrong. And from my take, it all comes down to, you're just not putting enough effort into thinking about how it is that you want to present yourself. so, in the second half, I thought we would dig into how they really should be presenting themselves. What are some approaches? let's start with the photographs. And I want to start with a couple of topics here. The first one is, when I was online dating, I was fortunate enough to have a best friend who was also a professional photographer. And I co opted him after lunch one day into saying, Hey, could you grab some shots? And man, I'm telling you, he had an enough of an eye. Right that he said, uh, Take that sweater off Do this fix your hair. We're gonna go out. We're gonna get some light. That's right We're gonna get a variety of shots and he probably took 250 shots

Meghan: 30:25
That's what it

Hoyt: 30:25
and He sent those to me and the first thing that I did We had kind of narrowed it down to about 20 of those that might work. And I had a good friend in San Francisco who was a single woman about my age. And I said, Hey, you've got an eye for this. What should I put on my dating profile? And we probably sat for 45 minutes as she gave me why this one, why not that one? And so I think we ended up, selecting stuff that worked. And to be honest with you, I don't know how much to attribute the success that I felt like I had online to the fact that these were actually, pretty good representations of all of the aspects of who I am. So would guys really benefit from if they don't have a friend that's a professional photographer or they don't have the 1, 500 or whatever it would be to hire a professional photographer? What's a good option for that?

Meghan: 31:34
I mean, there are, it doesn't have to be a professional photographer that you hire out for the entire day. There are tons of online platforms where you can hire, hire, you know, for two hours, one or two hours, someone to meet you at a park, I think there's one. I don't know, fly over that platform that photographs you and in any part of the world, there are. you can go to to hire just some subcontractor photographer with a decent eye. And it doesn't have to be crazy expensive. It can be an hourly rate versus a full day thing. And with the technology the way that it is, In iPhones or just phones in general, you almost always know somebody in your small network of people that has a good eye with their camera. You can look at their social media profiles and say, who of my friends is taking good photographs of themselves and others that is putting them online and just ask for a favor or do a trade.

Hoyt: 32:42
Mm

Meghan: 32:42
Cook you dinner, I'll buy you dinner,

Hoyt: 32:44
hmm. Exactly. I'll cook the burgers or something, right?

Meghan: 32:47
Yeah, and I think we all like to... If a guy came and asked me to do that, I would totally do it. No one has, but I would. I think it would. be

Shay: 32:56
It's not that hard. It just takes time. You have to ask. You have to, again, it's a little bit of effort. But it's really, it can be free. I think iPhones are, take, fine pictures. Just don't take them super close and get somebody else to just do it. That's the step. Step one is have someone else take the picture. Don't do it yourself. Don't do it in a mirror. Don't do it sitting in the car. Just have someone else take it. I don't care if it's, you know, the cashier. Just have them take the picture. You can edit out the rest of it, but,

Hoyt: 33:26
And part of it, and I think, Shay, you were talking earlier about the value of having a lot of pictures to choose from, right? A lot of choices. So, get a lot of shots so you can pick the few out of that. And The ones that I remember responding to for women

Kathryn: 33:46
uh, And, uh, And,

Hoyt: 33:48
the posed ones. They were the candid ones, you know, the ones where I'm just catching this shot captured them in their natural habitat, so to speak, right? This was not somebody that's staring at the camera and putting on whatever smile and What was that? Lug forward and hip and arm on the

Kathryn: 34:12
you

Meghan: 34:12
Yeah, the one hand on hip, leg, knee bent, the three quarter angle.

Shay: 34:18
Mm hmm. It's harder to get those natural pictures because A lot of times you're with friends or you're doing, I mean, if you're trying to get a natural picture from a professional photographer, it's still posed. So, in a way, so it doesn't look as natural. But I mean, you just. Some people just don't have a lot of pictures going out with friends or anything, so they're gonna have to come up with something, but just a couple. I mean, I had, there were profiles where there were only maybe three pictures, but they were good enough to show he cleans up, and he's dressed nicely, and he's put together, and it was effort, right?

Hoyt: 34:51
Alright, so decent photos, whether they're, shot professionally or shot with a friend on a decent camera or camera phone, really make a big difference. That's what I'm hearing you say, right?

Meghan: 35:06
and current photos. When someone puts a picture of who they used to be, up there and it doesn't have to be within the last few years, but if it's from 1979,

Kathryn: 35:19
paragraph

Meghan: 35:20
they want to show that I used to be, I used to be this person, even though maybe I'm not this person now, maybe you can see into me. About who I used to be Although I do find that interesting as i'm getting to know somebody I do want to see their pictures from their youth or the highlights of their lives as they've captured them and they have them Around the house or in albums, but that's something to discover About somebody as you get to know them not something That you want to lead with.

Hoyt: 35:52
All right, so let's talk about the variety of pictures, what's the ideal set? In your mind, like what does it convey? What is the breadth of that person that their photographs

Kathryn: 36:05
I don't remember if it was Megan or if it was Shay that said it, but like kind of having the full spectrum of. Like what they are into. something casual, something formal, and then at least some things in between.

Shay: 36:22
And also, you know, I, I remember, I like a beach picture because I like the beach. I mean, also, maybe show what you like to do or who you are. Um, sports are fine, one picture, not six, if that's what you like. If you like to work out, I mean, you don't need to see that, you can say that. But I think that you're trying to tell a story as concisely as you can. with a few pictures and a few words, so you need to narrow it down to really what you're trying to say, who, who are you really, what do you like to do, what are the things, what are you trying to tell this woman about you in this very short span. You'll have plenty of time to, elaborate later, but you've got a very short time to

Kathryn: 37:01
you know, on that note, if your hobby or your passion is you're a fantastic angler or a hunter, fair enough, you can include a picture, but don't lead with that, don't lead with a picture of you with the creature that. You have just killed with the No. I mean, you know, if that's your thing and you're looking for somebody to hunt with, listen, I'm from Texas, that's a thing. Um, but yeah, don't lead with it.

Shay: 37:29
but maybe write that, maybe put that in your, in your bio instead of having a picture of something like that. I mean, use your best judgment, but that's why I think there need to be people who maybe do this for a living.

Meghan: 37:40
If you're not willing to invest in this Then that shows you're pretty cheap, too

Hoyt: 37:49
that's a really, really good point. And I was thinking about that when we were talking about the professional photographer. Obviously, that's not inexpensive to do, right? If you're going to hire somebody, even for a few hours, That's not going to be cheap. But, if you are looking for a long term relationship that you are going to invest your person into, who you are, you're going to invest this. What is that worth? it's, A bargain price if you're looking for a romantic partner.

Meghan: 38:24
I mean, I'll relate it to the real estate industry that I'm in. I can't put a property for, right now I have a property for sale at a high price point. I have expensive pictures of it. I had to. It's part of the marketing cost to... Represent the property to the right buyer. And if you aren't willing to invest in yourself like that, then it says so much about your priorities.

Shay: 38:57
And I think some people start out by saying, well, I'll give it a try. I'll just try online dating. And they, and they just throw it together. And you know, it's halfhearted to begin with, and they really aren't fully in. And I think a lot of people may start out that way and they don't want to invest in it because they're not really sure it's for them or it's going to work, but it's kind of all or nothing because if you don't. it's probably not going to go well. And then it, you'll never know if it was going to work for you or not. So I think it's just go ahead and invest and see, and go 100 percent or go, go all or nothing, you know?

Hoyt: 39:32
Go big or go home, huh?

Shay: 39:34
That's

Meghan: 39:34
Yeah, you can use those. It's super empowering, by the way, to finally get images of yourself that, like you said, Hoyt, the photographer that you traded with and took pictures for you, that you felt he really captured who you are in all the different assets of your personality. And I think that it's Really self empowering thing to do to see yourself as others might see you. And feel good about it and you feel good about yourself. And I know a lot of people don't like having their picture taken because they maybe have never had Their picture taken by a professional and it feels very different when you have something that You are proud to display even and you could then use it on your linkedin profile If there's a great headshot of you, it probably will get you work too and be a money maker

Hoyt: 40:34
that's a really good point because, it's not that different from, how you feel when you get a new suit or something, right? It gives you a little extra oomph, a little extra power, right? It's a swagger, right? And, I think that's really important in a dating profile to convey for men is this right balance between, confidence and arrogance, It's like, you want to be able to tell. This is a confident person, and that confidence is displayed in how much they feel about themselves and how much effort they put into their presentation online.

Shay: 41:20
Mm hmm. Mm

Hoyt: 41:20
people are attracted to strong, competent people who are comfortable in their own skin. And so that is really what you're trying to convey. And you convey that in your photos and you convey that in what you write. So I want you to think about what people that you've seen, men that you've seen online and what they've written about themselves. And why you judge that to be high quality. so Shea,

Shay: 41:55
hmm.

Hoyt: 41:56
I happen to know that the photographs that your boyfriend put online were, I thought pretty amazing. and it's not that he's Brad Pitt. I mean, he's a good looking guy, but he's not a Brad Pitt, Paul Rudd, or Ryan Gosling,

Kathryn: 42:15
Look, she's

Hoyt: 42:15
but he presented

Kathryn: 42:16
Like, yes, he is. He is.

Shay: 42:19
I mean, right. Close enough. Close enough.

Hoyt: 42:24
but he presented a level of confidence in his profile that made you say. There's something here. Can you, can you tell

Shay: 42:34
And in fact, I knew just from his profile, I said, I, this might be the one. I mean, it was, it was so well done. I could tell so much about him and it was very, and he, he is a very concise person anyway, but. I could tell things he liked to do. I knew he liked to cook. I knew he was sarcastic and I was all in on that. so good sense of humor. He was very well educated. I knew, you know, just from where he went to school. I knew he liked the beach. There were pictures of beach in there. I knew he liked animals. so there was a lot I garnered from that profile that really was probably the best profile I saw. There were a couple that were similar, but I mean, as far as the entirety, so it was just so comprehensive, so his pictures in the profile, I could tell he was going to be a fun person to have a conversation with. I could tell he was fun, especially the one in the tuxedo and the drink and everything. And there were a lot of clues and it was a conversation starter and you want to have something to jump off on in your profile, it just makes it easier and you have a good profile and it's almost like you already kind of know them on the first date. We had a lot to talk about. Because I already knew we had a lot in common. And that's what the profile is for. So if you don't put things that are about you, there's, when you get to the first day, you're really starting from scratch anyway. So why have it? Um, dig deep, but keep it simple. There's a, there's gotta be a formula to it, you know?

Meghan: 44:07
You said something that I think really hit the nail. Comprehensive. Meaning,

Kathryn: 44:14
all angles.

Meghan: 44:16
Get into the details. All aspects. We're complex people. Everyone is. We're not one dimensional or two dimensional. We're, we have all kinds of aspects to, to us and we should represent it.

Shay: 44:34
the greatest part about online dating is that, you meet someone in a bar, you know nothing about them. You have no idea. It's very difficult to meet out like that. This makes, for me, it made it so much easier because you, you've got a headstart and then you can talk on the phone and then you can text and you haven't even met yet in person. And I went through so many people before I even, I never met them because we didn't get that far. so to me, this is a fantastic platform if it's used correctly, used incorrectly, you're not leaving the house.

Kathryn: 45:04
the point that we haven't really talked about that I think is really critical here is that. You, you have to have put some thought into knowing yourself before you put it out there. You have got to put some time into knowing yourself and, and sometimes it's just like, I don't remember which one of you said, you know, ask a friend or a girlfriend. Maybe that was me that said that. I don't know, but, ask somebody else for their input because we don't always see ourselves inaccurate light. You know, you're still harboring some heartache from that. you may forget how spectacular you are. Let, let one of your friends tell you, but know thyself.

Meghan: 45:47
That's a good point. I have seen quite a few profiles. The text leads with. According to my, whatever, daughter, sister, best friend, they say I'm like this, if you don't like, you hate that one.

Kathryn: 46:03
I

Meghan: 46:04
You hate the one

Kathryn: 46:04
according to my girlfriend, my mother, my daughter, and I said my fish.

Meghan: 46:10
Exactly. I'm a good catch. if you're uncomfortable writing about yourself in that way, it feels too intimate. If you can ask someone, how would you describe me?

Shay: 46:23
Yeah, That's it. That's

Hoyt: 46:26
Megan, shouldn't they just own that even though it was their sister that said. Oh, you're just that and the other, not attribute it, like,

Meghan: 46:37
Oh, I say

Shay: 46:37
it. just say

Hoyt: 46:38
like other people say, but like own it, because isn't that doesn't that betray some lack of self confidence if it,

Shay: 46:46
lack of confidence completely. Like you don't want to admit any of that or something. Yeah, it's kind of, odd. I've never seen one written that way.

Meghan: 46:54
Oh my god, I see it all the time. So funny. Yeah. Yeah.

Hoyt: 46:57
percent of us

Kathryn: 46:58
At the end of the day, I really do believe that there's somebody for everybody. Now, when you're going online, you have to hope that you're somebody is going to stay interested and engaged enough to uncover what you've put out there in your profile. But there really is somebody for everybody. Again, make your brochure the best offering of what you are and that, and you're somebody. is gonna find you. Your somebody's gonna find you. It may not be right away, don't be discouraged. Um, it's a lot of digging, it's a lot of sifting and sorting and panning for gold, but there really is somebody for everybody.

Hoyt: 47:41
that's a really important point, Catherine, because it's all about, as we've talked about a number of times on this podcast, it's all about timing and proximity, right? But it's timing because You're right person. You're right fit. And I, I don't believe in the concept of a single soulmate. I think there are thousands, right, that you

Kathryn: 48:07
remate and remate again.

Hoyt: 48:10
absolutely, absolutely connect with.

Shay: 48:12
Maybe three times.

Hoyt: 48:13
But, are they within your orbit? Are they close enough? Is their timing right? I mean, all of us have been in relationships. before and the last five years or ten years of those relationships might not have been great. And if your right person was coming along, you would have completely missed it. It was gone, right? Because they were in that place at a time when you weren't available and that might have been a

Kathryn: 48:42
Yeah, it's impossible to completely miss the boat.

Hoyt: 48:45
do?

Kathryn: 48:45
I mean,

Hoyt: 48:47
No, you could totally do that, right? Because it is about what's available to you in the moment. And so to your point, Catherine, you may not have success with the authentic profile that really represents you. That's a good marketing brochure for who you actually are. You may not find that right person, and it may not generate... a hundred likes today or tomorrow. It may be next year. It may be five years from now, but you can't stop putting that out there because that's who you are. If you put that representation of yourself out into the world and you're comfortable with it and it's who you are. It will eventually connect you with that person that you were, I'm going to say meant to be with, even though, well, I don't know what that means, right? But the timing, proximity, and authenticity all come together. An energy that just makes it happen right. Shea, I'm going to start with you. Final thoughts about just the simple things that they can do to represent themselves better online.

Shay: 50:05
Yeah, they need to put more time and thought into curating pictures and their profile, and if they feel like they can't do it on their own, they need to ask for help from someone who knows them, and it can be anyone. But it will be better than them if they don't have a clue. So, uh, just put some effort in it. That's it. I mean, it really will pay off in the end.

Hoyt: 50:29
Megan, I

Meghan: 50:29
mean, I would, my advice would be to look, look at your life and, and observe the things that you put a lot of effort into, like maybe a, a sport or a hobby or your job or your kids. And if you approach dating in the, with the same level of importance that you give to other things in your life that you value. That will translate to a woman of value, if that's what you're looking for, to see it.

Kathryn: 51:08
they took all the good ones. I loved the idea of really a full spectrum representation of who you are and why you may be a good match for me. Because it is a lot of sorting and sifting to get there. And, give me something that's worth considering. Slow me down enough to not get sifted right on out. Be funny. Be smart.

Hoyt: 51:38
mean, that's a great point. And Shea made this earlier, which is... Basically, you got 15 seconds, right? You got 15 seconds at most to make enough of an impression for somebody to make a permanent slight. Yeah, it's permanent. You're not coming back, So, this is your opportunity. And you might as well just say who you really are. You might as well just put out there who your authentic self is, because that's what's going to be ultimately connecting with someone, Chez Morgan, Catherine, thank you so much for joining me today on the show and sharing your insights and experiences. This was such fun. We opened this episode of behind the swipe on a somewhat negative note. I think I called it an intervention. Maybe that was a little strong, but I think you get it by now. Getting your profile right. Can make all the difference in finding success. In online, dating. And as we heard from our daters, it's not rocket science. It boils down to these four key elements. One be authentic. Use your few photos and lines of text to show who you really are. Not who you think they want. It can seem counterintuitive, but a little vulnerability can convey confidence and that's a very attractive characteristic. Too. Show off the full breadth of your interest in personality. One dimensional profiles, define you as narrow and can read a shallow. And don't forget a touch of humor. Three. Get help. Ask a female friend who cares about you. To help select the right photos for your profile. Not only can they sometimes see strengths in attractiveness in you that you might not see yourself. They're also viewing your profile through the lens of a prospective romantic partner. And that's something you can't do. Number four, finally. And if you remember one takeaway. From what we heard today, it's this. Show that you made an effort. Take the time to thoughtfully craft the profile that truly represents you. The payoff just might be finding that next great relationship. I hope you enjoy this episode of behind the swipe. Please share the link to this, or any other episode with anyone, you think might benefit from a better richer dating life. I'm white price sock. Join us again next week. For another episode of behind the swipe. Until then. Swipe fearlessly.Hoyt: 0:03