Hoyt: 0:06

Welcome to another episode of behind the swipe, where we delve into the world of online dating. For those of us navigating life after 50, I'm your host, Hoyt Prisock, and today we're going to dive into a topic that resonates deeply with many of our listeners. Dating again after divorce. Our guest today is Betsy Morris. A talented writer. Who's recently published a compelling blog series titled adventures in online dating. Betsy has bravely shared her journey of stepping back into the dating pool after her divorce. And her insights are both relatable and inspiring. Today, we're going to explore Betsy's journey. Through the lens of her blog post. Touching on themes like overcoming anxiety. Navigating expectations. Creating an authentic profile. Learning and adapting. Filtering and decision-making. And the emotional journey of personal growth. These themes are not only relevant to Betsy's experience. But also incredibly pertinent to our ongoing Julie's journey series. For those of you following Julie's journey. You know that we're documenting the real-time experiences of Julie. A divorced woman who is reentering the dating world with the help of our experts. Julie's story mirrors, many of the challenges and triumphs that Betsy writes about making today's conversation, especially relevant. And Betsy's first blog post. She talks about gathering the courage to take the plunge into online dating much like standing on the edge of a diving board facing the same fears and anxieties, as you felt as a child. If you've ever felt that mix of excitement and trepidation. Wondering if you're ready to dive into online dating after a significant life change. Betsy's insights are going to be incredibly valuable. So stay tuned as we explore these themes in depth. We'll draw parallels to Julie's experiences, providing a comprehensive look at what it really means to reenter the dating world with courage. Vulnerability and an open heart. So. Let's get started. Betsy Morris, welcome back to Behind the Swipe. Thank you for coming.

Betsy: 2:35

Thank you so much for having me, Hoyt. Always delighted to have a conversation with you.

Hoyt: 2:40

You know, I, I think I mentioned in the opening here that it's particularly relevant because now we've got this series that we've begun on Julie's journey with, a woman who is in her mid 50s and she's going back to work. out into the online dating world, really in earnest for the first time. And we're giving her a little bit of a boost here, but you've written so originally and authentically about your experiences. I, I went back and I read most of the, posts that you had put out there and I counted 11 of them in this Adventures in Online Dating series. So first of all, congratulations on that.

Betsy: 3:17

Thank you so much, Hoyt. I actually have a few more to, to finish editing and add to the, chronicling of the adventure, because it certainly led me down many paths. Most importantly, the path to knowing myself, I would say again, but also in some ways for the first time. And, so I want to finish up that series

Hoyt: 3:44

I am absolutely looking forward to it. And that's a really important point that you made is that even if you put yourself out there and you are in the online dating world and you don't find that relationship that you're really looking for, there are opportunities to discover new things about yourself in here. And that's what I love about how you've positioned this series because you're sharing not only what really happened with you and what your thought processes were in coming into it, but you're sharing how that molded you and informed you through the process. I love that.

Betsy: 4:26

Well, I really wanted to put my insides on the outside because, it was so easy for several friends who were married to jump in and say, you know, you need to be online dating, you need to just, Get out there. You're going to do great. but it took a whole inner journey. Um, I don't even remember how many blogs I have before I go on the first date because I had so many inner barriers that I needed to work through. and I had spent at that point, Five or six years, recovering from my marriage and divorce. this was just the next step in my journey. And I'm so glad that, one friend really encouraged me and she's the one that suggested, why don't you write about it, which was kind of like hook, lion and sinker, I'm in.

Hoyt: 5:24

Well, you know, they say, Betsy, that the best way to learn something is to have to teach it, right?

Betsy: 5:28

yeah, well, there was nothing like the experience of not only living it, but then sitting down to write about it. And it was the writing part. That kind of pointed out some of the patterns that were still haunting me from childhood, early adulthood. patterns that had impacted me in my marriage. so it was just a transformational experience. I'm so glad that I did it. And I did it in this way because. Now it gives me something to support other people as they go through the journey.

Hoyt: 6:08

know, Betsy, it almost sounds like you would recommend writing your own process, even if you're not intending it for broader publication as you go through. It was almost, that's a therapeutic process for you, isn't it?

Betsy: 6:23

It was a therapeutic process. I mean, I'm a journaler, so I process things. I get things from inside me onto paper and then it's kind of like I can have that aha moment. I've also learned about myself that I can do that in conversation with other with somebody else, whether it's a therapist or a trusted friend. Like, hearing myself say or seeing myself write something that is that aha moment. not everybody processes information that way, but, I think everybody can benefit from the self reflection tool. When it applies to online dating, like, am I really looking for what I want? That's a huge question. the things on the outside, I was encouraging a friend to try online dating and she was reluctant. And then, you know, when we were talking about what she was looking for, she was giving me descriptors of height or, looks, occupation. Those are not the things that interfered with my marriage, that led to the breakdown of my marriage. And therefore, attraction, But I even wrestled with, in one of my blogs, I even wrestled with what is attraction and what's the most important thing. laughingly, one of my readers commented, I'm just not attracted to old men, even though I'm an old woman. And had to laugh because I know both sexes deal with that. Like, I'm not attracted to somebody my age. I want to date somebody who looks younger. Or is younger. but there are different ways to work through attraction. It's not like, Finding somebody who's attractive physically isn't going to mean anything if they don't have the other components that are more important. And self reflection while online dating kind of helps you pick which fish you want to keep and which fish you want to throw back. Fishing, I use lots of metaphors in my writing, so fishing is one of them. The diving board, jumping into the deep waters. That's definitely another one that kind of recurs through the series.

Hoyt: 8:46

Betsy, take me back to your life before even considering online dating You said you had been divorced a few years. It was not a great divorce situation. there was acrimony. There was heartache as a part of that, plus you had kids at home. So you had every reason not to be back out in the, in the world. You had healing to do. And you had responsibilities at home. Can you tell us a little bit more about what your state was in the years after your divorce?

Betsy: 9:22

absolutely. I was separated for almost two years before the divorce was final. I did not date during that period of time. I was. Still walking wounded, trailing limbs, bleeding. I was just, I was just a mess. there was infidelity in my marriage and therefore trust issues. not only trust of other people, but trusting myself. so I had to wrestle with that in those first few years. reconnecting to my intuition, learning to trust my intuition, I had three kids at home, one that graduated shortly after the divorce, and then two boys that were home for quite a number of years. probably about a year after my divorce, I went to my high school reunion and met a guy that I had known in junior high and high school, and that was my first date post divorce. He lived in Houston. I lived here, in San Antonio. And, that taught me a lot about what I am looking for, started teaching me what I was looking for in a relationship, and also things that I would definitely, not look for in a relationship and not tolerate in a relationship. And I would say that, Without rhyme or reason, God kind of crossed my paths with certain men that had something to show me. There was not necessarily a, they didn't teach me something, but I learned something from each of those relationships or, whether it was one date or 10 dates, whatever it was, there was something that I learned from those guys. Then COVID hit. And I suddenly had two boys at home and, certainly no dating during COVID. And then once things started opening back up again, I quickly realized that meeting people organically wasn't going to work the way that I thought the person that is right for me. wasn't going to be friend of a friend of a friend that friend X finally introduced me to, that I needed a bigger pond, and the only way I was going to get connected to that, particularly in a post COVID world, and working at home, was to do online dating.

Hoyt: 11:56

and yet Betsy, you write a lot about how anxiety producing that was for you. Just the whole concept of putting yourself out there online. can you tell me about that? Go back to that memory.

Betsy: 12:09

absolutely. there were so many parts of this that surprised me. First of all, I thought I was an introvert. I have learned since then that I'm really not an introvert. I like people too much. I like to be social. I just need introverted time, but that's kind of natural when you work at home. So there were lots of ways that I had to get to know myself again, push myself into uncomfortable situations. we all have anxiety about the unknown. We like to think that we know what is around the corner, but the truth is, we have no clue what is around the corner. so, there's nothing like putting yourself in a position where it becomes evident that you don't know what is around the corner. And online dating put me, in a position of Learning to reckon with that. Like, I don't have control over everything in my world. I have control over this moment, what I think, what I say, and what I do. But, some of the anxiety was also about decades old insecurities that came back up to be reckoned with. one of the tools that I used is looking at things that happened to me as an invitation. So, online dating was an invitation to reckon with a body image. not only being, I think I was 45 or when are we divorced? So about 50, when I started doing the online dating, but body issues came back up to be reckoned with. And everybody can identify with that in some way, shape, or form. had anxiety about, like, what do I say to strangers? do I still have conversation skills? After being in a world where my friends were either People that I had known from high school, college, living in my town for 25 years. parents of my kids friends. Sports teams, like there were all these things that it didn't feel like I was ever talking to a stranger. I was just meeting a new friend. And so I really had to take that and translate that framework into online dating. I'm just meeting a new friend. This person could be a friend and for A couple of years, there were several men that I met in online dating that I was still friends with. Actually, I'm still friends with one of the guys. His birthday was recently and I called him to say hi. So it really was learning to put myself in an area of discomfort, work through my anxiety, take a framework that worked somewhere else and apply it to online dating.

Hoyt: 15:08

So Betsy, did you ever feel like when you were in that process of considering online dating, was there ever a point where you said, this might be a little too overwhelming for me. Maybe I shouldn't go down that path.

Betsy: 15:20

well, as I said in one of my blogs, I put it off as long as I could. And I probably wrote four blogs before I actually went out on a date. Like there was lots of inner resistance that I had to work through, but I am so glad that I did because time and time again, I taught myself something about myself. kind of like when you're lifting weights and you, lift 15 pound dumbbells and Then you lift 20 pound dumbbells. You're like always proving to yourself that you can do more than you thought that you could do. So I was just continuing to push myself to do more than I thought I could do.

Hoyt: 16:02

So when you made that commitment, you said, okay, I'm going to go online. Like that opens up a hundred other issues that you never even anticipated that you were going to have to even think about, right? It's like, how do I market Betsy? How do I market Betsy and do it in a way that represents the authentic me?

Betsy: 16:24

Yes.

Hoyt: 16:25

I want to hear about that because I remember reading some of your stuff about struggling with that. And then I was fascinated.

Betsy: 16:32

Well, so I am a social worker. I've been a mom. I'm a yoga teacher. I am NOT a salesperson. I am NOT a marketer. I fortunately have a friend who, sat down with me and helped me write my profile, which I highly recommend, helped me sort through pictures. her brain works very differently than mine. So it was a great compliment to a somebody I trusted. To have my best interests, but B, she's very creative and, thinks outside the box. So, uh, I know I've listened to all of your podcasts, but the, the dating coaches who are like, okay, well, if you want to show your creative. Don't say I'm creative. Show a picture of you doing something that's creative. Like, a picture of you painting. this friend really helped me get outside of my comfort zone in creating a profile. And what is most important to me? One of the blogs that's, eh, half finished is that when I started dating, I started making a list of characteristics that I'm looking for in a partner. So there's a list of 50 something things that started one by one. I'd go on a, not a bad date, but a date that I was like, meh. Okay. Now I know that X, Y, or Z is important to me. and in creating that list, I learned that these are also a, representative of the person that I am or the person I want to be. And that in and of itself was a great tool that informed me in making good choices about how I build my profile, how I communicate. With online daters. I found that I really was more comfortable with Bumble, which is where the woman reaches out first. I liked the empowered position. I liked starting the conversation. all these things that I never would have guessed about myself. particularly based on the marriage that I was in.

Hoyt: 18:44

So there's a little bit of PTSD you still had to anticipate

Betsy: 18:48

absolutely. I mean, there is nothing like midlife to stir up the unhealed places and invite you to do the work to transform them. Online dating was 100 percent transformational for me. And that means working through the PTSD. learning to draw boundaries. one guy, did something or said something in a text that could have come out of my ex husband's mouth. And I'm like, well, this is clear now. I can say no, thank you. And disconnect the link in the profile. Be done with that. Don't need to repeat that trauma again.

Hoyt: 19:27

yes.

Betsy: 19:28

I can move forward and create new pathways.

Hoyt: 19:36

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Betsy: 21:23

it's impossible for us to see ourselves 100 percent clearly. So even if you look in a mirror, the image that you see is reversed to what somebody else sees. So there's science that says that we look at pictures of ourselves and we tend not to like them, but if you flipped the image over, you would be more drawn to it because then it reflects what you see in the mirror. Well, just like I saw myself as an introvert, Some of that was trauma based. Being told that my opinion didn't matter. being an Enneagram 9, I learned a lot about my personality in this. This friend challenged me and showed me all these different situations of having all the team parties were at my house. I love to throw a party. I love to draw people together. I love to make connections between people. she helped me see myself in a different light. I should have read my profile again. That might have helped me. I know she helped me pick out pictures that, like I said about the, the creative. A picture that says something about me being creative or liking to paint. I know one of my pictures was me digging in my garden. because I liked, digging in the dirt was very therapeutic. Particularly at that point in my life. and I don't mind getting dirty. I'm not a prissy girl. I'm not gonna have my nails and my hair and full face of makeup. And a online dating profile picture of me in dirty clothes, work boots, standing on a shovel says something. So, I wouldn't have necessarily thought of that. That was her idea.

Hoyt: 23:14

So she said no to the red carpet photos and stuff like that. Right.

Betsy: 23:18

Well, I didn't have any red carpet photos, but she helped me find pictures that presented a more full view of who Betsy is. And that's important, like, you know, when you see somebody across the room, there is a visual component. And so you can't downplay. That we are visual creatures. Picking your pictures does make a difference. And you've had some great episodes on that.

Hoyt: 23:46

So tell me about the point at which you had made the commitment to go online I want to understand a little bit more. You talked about like choosing, Bumble as a preferred site, but you've tried other ones there too.

Betsy: 24:00

Oh, yes.

Hoyt: 24:02

so tell me a little bit about choosing a platform and how you went through that process.

Betsy: 24:07

Oh goodness. I overthought the heck that process to death. picked eHarmony to begin with and there was nothing wrong with eHarmony. it was a great starting place for me. and actually how I met somebody that I met. I am still dating, but I liked Bumble better. Like there were, you know, they're just different dynamics and it's kind of like, we all like a different grocery store. There are different preferences that you can explore when you try different dating sites. And some dating sites are better in some cities than in others. I know Tinder gets a bad rap in the States, but in Australia, my friend met her husband that way. So it's just, I think one of the lessons I learned was to go into each step, with fewer expectations. I needed to lighten up. I needed to not be so research mind oriented, but give. Kind of take some of the weight off of my shoulders, not take it so seriously. Like, there's really not a mistake. if you do something, you're like, Oh, I don't want to do it that way again. That doesn't mean it was a mistake. if you say something to somebody, you're like, Oh wait, I didn't want to say it that way. I apologize. I take that back. I'd like to say it this way instead. I didn't think this was important in dating, but now I do think it is important. So there's a lot more freedom of exploration that can be found if you choose that attitude. Like I didn't go into it. Thinking, I'm going to find the man I'm going to marry.

Hoyt: 25:51

Mm

Betsy: 25:52

I went into it going, I'd like to have some relationship experiences, some post divorce relationship experiences that I'm more, that are more intentional than running across somebody that I knew 10 years ago, or running across an ex neighbor in the grocery store.

Hoyt: 26:12

We're waiting for the UPS guy to be a really cute guy, right?

Betsy: 26:15

People are waiting for the UPS guy, because for a while those were the only men that I saw, other than my two sons.

Hoyt: 26:22

Betsy, tell me about, because you you write very poignantly, I think, about this struggle about how vulnerable you should be in the process of putting your profile together and in early engagement And I know you struggle with that and you landed, I think in a really great place. So tell me about that. You

Betsy: 26:45

I guess first I started with my priorities, like what were the most important things that I was looking for in a partner? Because then you also weave that into your own profile. because then it's like, fishing with accurate bait. the vulnerability, some of that was learning that I don't have to over explain. I don't have to give, okay, here's the metaphor. My therapist used this for with me all the time in my marriage therapy. I don't have to hold a target. And move it around to catch every arrow. Like, my ex would just throw arrows, and I was just like, Hey, I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna, like, hurt myself. Like, that's inappropriate vulnerability. I don't have to be the target. appropriate vulnerability is probably what I learned in the online dating process, in communicating on the different platforms with texting. and then in conversation on dates. I learned I don't want to give my phone number out too quickly. I'm going to keep a beginning conversation on the platform because, and certainly not on Facebook Messenger. Made that mistake too. Had to block somebody, who showed his crazy. all of this was stuff that I learned. I didn't die from the lessons. My heart didn't get broke from the lessons because my priority was Taking little baby steps, learning to trust myself, learning to feel safe, even in uncomfortable circumstances. So, God, I learned all about the process of, investigating a date, like doing background checks, um, because I'm way too trusting a person. At one point got myself into a circumstance that I was like didn't think this through but again that you learn by Taking the missteps and learning you want to head in a different direction, or I'm not gonna repeat that again I'm not gonna give somebody my phone number too early in the process Certainly wasn't gonna get in somebody's car. I mean I was real clear on that you can Meet anybody anywhere and, never went for a hike on the first date. Did go for a hike on a second date, but I felt, I felt totally safe. so there was just lots of, not even trial and error, just lots of trial.

Hoyt: 29:25

there's a, there's a theory and I, I, I believe it's true. And that is that what you want to attract, you have to model yourself. So if you're trying to attract a man that is. is willing to be vulnerable in themselves. You have to model that in your early interactions. And to an extent, to attract that person in the first place, you have to model that in your profile, right? So how did you navigate that? It's a narrow channel. How did you navigate that?

Betsy: 29:59

Well, I didn't go back and read my profile. I did go back and read several of my text conversations on the Bumble platform. Cause I think I just hit snooze on Bumble and you can still keep your account live. Not because I'm planning on dating anymore, but because I knew that I would want that information while writing about it and refining this inner journey that's taken place. and again, maybe because I had the experience on eHarmony when I switched to Bumble and the women were, expected to take the lead, I led with vulnerability. I led with, not just sharing, I'm a mom of three kids and, I had my heart broken with infidelity and I have come to see my part in creating that dynamic. not that I take responsibility for his action, but. Because I played a role. but that's self modeling, self reflection, that's modeling accountability, that's modeling integrity, not victimhood. and that's just in a text getting to know somebody in the platform. And there were several times where that level of vulnerability was not, returned to me as a person. My person dove straight into the deep end with me, right off the bat. interestingly enough, there were several other men that demonstrated that capacity. so it wasn't like I found the one person who was willing to meet me in that place.

Hoyt: 31:35

So Betsy, when you finally said, okay, I'm going to go on, I think you said eHarmony, I'm going to go on and I'm going to do this. Tell me about that first few days or week of experience Did you ever find yourself second guessing your, your, oh, maybe I shouldn't have done this?

Betsy: 31:53

I didn't second guess. I did second guess the platform. I didn't feel like there were, compatible matches. there were great guys. But I just, that first, I mean, I think it was the first few months that I was like, okay, I, I, I, this is going to be really hard. This is going to take time. one friend told me I wasn't investing enough time. I'm like, well, I just might have to be more patient. Cause I'm not willing to invest more time. like time in a day or how many

Hoyt: 32:27

Yeah, sure.

Betsy: 32:28

time in a week. and heck I had bought the year program. So I was like, I got all the time in the world.

Hoyt: 32:34

You got the 30 percent discount for the year.

Betsy: 32:37

Yes, I would not recommend doing that just one month at a time, folks. but I also could see the lessons that were taking place on the inside. And that kept me in the game, so to speak.

Hoyt: 32:55

I'm getting at what the difference was between that first week online and what your expectations of that first week.

Betsy: 33:05

the first week on any platform, I believe, they match you up with the most People, with eHarmony, this is all number based. There's a compatibility score that I did not understand at the beginning. It meant absolutely nothing to me, even though I did there however many minute long, quiz, even if our scores were matching up. It did not feel like these were soul compatible men, for the most part. And I would continue to, it's kind of like going to the grocery store. Well, this tomato looks better than this tomato. So I'm going to pick this one up. Or, you know, I kind of pick the best out of the bunch to, um, begin my experimentation with, the interaction, getting to know the platform, what worked, what didn't. I am a highly curious, deep intellectual thinker, and I wasn't necessarily going to be well matched with somebody who couldn't spell in a text. That was not going to be a compatible match just from the get go. I talked to a lot of guys. And learned what some of my inner filter needed to look like in the texting part of the platform. Then when it moved to later on, I think you see a lot of the same faces. I was with eHarmony for three months before I was like, okay, I'm going to have to transition into Bumble. and. Even saw some of the same faces on Bumble that I saw on eHarmony, which I thought was really interesting. That was unexpected to me. and then you just see like the same faces over and like beyond the first week or two, you see the same faces because they're not that many people joining every single week. which didn't bother me. I was like, well, I'm still on here. I'm not taken yet. and I also knew I was slow to move forward through this process. I think the first guy went out with, I don't remember what month it was, but we talked or texted in the platform, texted on, And then talked and that was three weeks before I met him in person. you can go faster than that. You can go slower than that. the beautiful thing is that you control the pace of your interaction with the platform. And you can feel like you're drinking from a, fire hose or, I need to look at as many profiles, you know, I need to sort as quickly as possible. But. That's scarcity mindset versus abundance mindset. And I wanted to come from a place of abundance. Like I have the time to do what I need to do and things will match up all in good time.

Hoyt: 36:11

Yeah, this is not musical chairs, right?

Betsy: 36:13

No, if I miss a chance with somebody because I accidentally swiped left, then they're not my person. I have more faith in. God or the universe than that. things happen on time. That's one of my core beliefs.

Hoyt: 36:30

And so after you had been on the sites, whether eHarmony or Bumble for a few months, how were you different? after those three months from the point where you began. What shifted in Betsy?

Betsy: 36:45

That's a fabulous question. three to four months in, when I was newly on Bumble, I was empowered, much more empowered, much more comfortable starting conversations. I was having fun in the conversations, learning how to flirt over text, learning to draw boundaries. So there was one guy that, and I don't remember which platform I met him through and writing about it. I, I just, it was so many lessons. It was like drinking from a fire hose of lessons. seeing me revert back to an old, earlier behavior pattern of allowing unacceptable behavior. seeing my, I'm like, wait, I just reverted to like 10 year ago Betsy, not present day Betsy. Like all these inner buttons were being pushed. But it goes back to my theory that midlife is about cleaning out those closets. Do you want to live the second half of your life repeating the old patterns? That didn't get you where you wanted to go. Or do you want to look at the pattern, change the pattern and take yourself to a new place? And I can see in that four month process that those changes were taking place. I was much more comfortable meeting a date, being myself on a date. I remember the experience of recognizing that I was taking the real Betsy out on a date. a date with somebody. Not like the, the one who kind of hides behind a facade or a mask or plays the game of who are you and how are you showing up? Because then I can know how to show up and be safe. I,

Hoyt: 38:45

very interesting. I love that.

Betsy: 38:47

I knew I was learning in that process. that I could be safe no matter what. I could ground myself in Betsy. and if somebody didn't like me, then they're lost. That's okay. Just like I didn't like everybody, you know, I didn't have a close affinity for many of the people that I went out on one or two dates with. But it took me that time to figure that out and it didn't mean anything about them or anything negative about me for the, the guys who said, I don't see this going further. I'm like, wow, that's clarity. That's wonderful. I wish you the best. Good luck. So literally feels like a night and day process in those first four months. And it was about, it was around that time that I then met. the guy that I'm still dating, about month five. Although we started talking on the platform at about month four, and then it, he lives far away from me, so it took us another month to meet from north of the state and south of the state.

Hoyt: 39:59

If only you were just 10 miles away instead of 400, right?

Betsy: 40:03

Yes, that, that would make a difference. But that's not how it worked out. And, interestingly enough, my trust of things working out in time, really runs deep. the weekend that we had a really clear connection, like this is somebody I want to see again for sure. and long distance is worth it. is the same weekend that my mom bought a house in my town. And I'm like, huh, this is going to be interesting. And years later, we're still dating long distance. And my mom still lives here. And that has been a gift because mom and I have been able to live in the same city. and that alters our relationship,

Hoyt: 40:50

Uh huh. Uh

Betsy: 40:52

into dating because. We have to be able to adapt to all of these different circumstances in dating, with aging parents, or kids leaving the nest, or, illness. I mean, life happens, and the relationships that stay in your life are meant to be in your life.

Hoyt: 41:18

so you feel like you learned a lot about yourself in those first three months and learned a lot about what works for you and what doesn't work for you and how to engage in that kind of world. that feels like a process that it's just got to take its time.

Betsy: 41:36

You can't rush it. You

Hoyt: 41:38

you can't rush it.

Betsy: 41:39

mean, it's like peeling an onion. You have to take the outer skin off first, and then the next layer, then the next layer, and sometimes that outer skin, it takes lots of steps to get it off of the darn onion. These are lots, there are lots of steps involved. Tears are not required, but there is some work. I'm not sure if you re read the one about the theories of midlife dating. I re read that one last night and I think that writing that really helped me have a good understanding of myself and what I was looking for. there's not just one way to date at midlife. There are lots of different ways to date at midlife. are you looking for the happily ever after? I was not, I have no expectations of a happily ever after that fits somebody else's script. that was a big reckoning. one of my dear friends said that she saw midlife dating as having a series of walking partners and you decide if this is somebody who's gonna walk with you for a few steps or you're gonna do a 5k together or you start the 5k and you're like, this isn't what I've anticipated. I'm, I'm dropping out. you have choices. And I think post divorce, particularly, I can speak for myself, I did not want to get divorced. Uh, I worked really hard on a marriage, to save the marriage. but you have to have two people to save a marriage. so I was at first kind of antagonistic. Like angry that I had to, that I had to.

Hoyt: 43:29

Why do I have to do this, right?

Betsy: 43:31

Why do I, yeah, this is not my fault. I, I played up by all the rules. I did the therapy. I learned how to communicate. I was a good girl. and I'm punished. I had to work through my anger in those years between divorce and dating because I don't want to bring that anger, um, into another relationship. Like, that's mine to deal with.

Hoyt: 43:52

There are some things that you just have to go through as a process to evolve to the A place where you've got this level of confidence, you've got this level of comfort and clarity on what it is that you want or don't want, but the Betsy of four months in to online dating, what kind of advice would that Betsy give to the Betsy that was creating the profile in the first place?

Betsy: 44:18

first thing that comes up is that I had multiple points where I had to wrestle with my expectations. an expectation that, like the first date with some, like my first online date. I didn't realize that I had expectations. from that date. but I did. And I was disappointed when it was a subtle inside, No, this is not somebody that I want to see again. It's not like I started off with a bang and was like, oh, okay, this was easy. So wrestling with expectations at all of the different parts of the journey. Are you expecting somebody to fit completely into your world and not merge into his? or expecting somebody to look a certain way or have a certain job or make a certain income? Or have a certain retirement plan. somebody that can travel with you because you're retired. And I mean, there's so many levels of expectations that you have to evaluate. because it's an inner process that then will help you find your way through the outer process. If you're still grieving your marriage or angry about your divorce, Those feelings are going to weave themselves in to your interaction, and that often is not a positive experience for that dating relationship.

Hoyt: 45:53

Mm-Hmm?

Betsy: 45:54

Expectation that it's going to take time to weed through. that attraction is, based on things that are Like, what does midlife attraction look like for me? I figured out I'm all about eyes and a smile my boyfriend's profile. I mean, one picture was him with hair and one picture was. Him about the same time that he started dating. So not all his hair, but eyes and smile. I mean, it was, and then his personality and like all the things that are his ability to communicate, all of those things fell into place. But I don't know, you know, if I was like, okay, I don't want to date somebody who's losing their hair, then I might have glossed over his profile. And that would have just been tragic.

Hoyt: 46:46

Yeah, but you didn't put him to the front of the list because of the distance thing at first. Right.

Betsy: 46:52

Um, he put himself at the front of the list by writing me a letter after our first date, or an email. And I remember talking to my friend that encouraged me to sign up for online dating. And her advice was, keep the fish in the boat, but don't trade in all your gear yet. Keep, keep throwing the line back out there. It's really quickly to meet somebody at month four or five. give it some time. And I'm really glad that I did because I continued to learn really important lessons about who I wanted to be in a relationship and developing trust. Again, that first trust had to be with myself and then I could trust somebody else.

Hoyt: 47:42

And this process helped you develop that trust. Right.

Betsy: 47:48

absolutely. And I had begun the work of learning to trust my intuition. not judging myself for missing the red flags that I can now look back and see in my marriage. But all of that plays a part. And that's self reflection, whether you do it in writing, or just in taking time to, think about it. Not everybody wants to write or journal, and not everybody wants to think. One of my yoga clients asked me, do you think everybody needs to think about their lives as deeply as you do? And I said, I don't think everybody has to do it my way, but I think because I do, I will repeat patterns fewer times. I'm not going to marry the same guy over and over and over because I'm learning the lessons that help me make different decisions. So I think self reflection plays an important role in making different choices that work for the you that you are now, rather than the you that you were at 20.

Hoyt: 48:55

Well, that's a great insight, Betsy. So let's wrap up here, but because we're going through this session with Julie and she's just starting out on the process. what kind of advice to Julie and the other Julies that are out there? And guys too that have a lot of anxiety about jumping online and need to calibrate their expectations around this, about how to maximize your opportunities in dating online,

Betsy: 49:29

Well, I think the first point is mindset. like having an expectation that, It will take time. It will take time to sort through profiles. it takes time to figure out what you're looking for. or profile by profile, whether you not can, you connect with them, on the platform to figure out if you're communicating what you want to communicate, if they're communicating. Like, all of this takes time, and there are nuances, and if we take the pressure off that it's going somewhere, if you take the pressure off of it, and just try to have some fun, and look at it, like an artist grabbing a new piece of paper to scribble an idea on, And then going, oh, I don't really like where this went and grabbing another piece of paper. it's removing those expectations, trying to have fun, figuring out what you're looking for. But sometimes it's like tasting a new dish. You're like, huh, I like the first bite. Then you take another one and you're like, no, it's not for me. Or you take the first bite and you're like, oh no, that's not for me.

Hoyt: 50:46

right? Like the presentation is fabulous.

Betsy: 50:49

Yes.

Hoyt: 50:49

no, there's no substance behind it

Betsy: 50:52

Or it's just not a profile of flavors that you like. that I like, and that's okay. You don't, there, there's no judgment. And that self judgment, is something that we can choose to remove. Like, I didn't find a partner for the first four months, not because I'm broken or not enough or not smart or not beautiful or any other of the many failings I could pull up from my past. Things that I believed about myself, not interesting. I learned so much and that was the purpose of those early months. For me to push past comfort zones, to, find the boundary between doing something that I don't want to do and like going, okay, I'm making the too big of a deal about this. I can just type a note to somebody and if they respond, great. There's, I can type another note to somebody. They can, you just take the pressure off of each step of, The process. And, for me, it was fun to find the lessons.

Hoyt: 52:06

because you were curious enough all along, right? You came to it with curiosity,

Betsy: 52:11

but also I've, I've thought of ways that I could have fun. How many different ways could I start a conversation on Bumble and not repeat myself, like not do the same thing over and over and over, but how many times could I get outside of my comfort zone and still. Like, have safety within myself. So I wasn't violating any of my boundaries or somebody else's boundaries. I just turned it into a game. Not a game that anybody else knew that they were playing.

Hoyt: 52:44

but you know, as humans, we all want to stay in the comfort zone, right? I mean, that's, that's our natural flow is to stay in the comfort zone.

Betsy: 52:51

But all good things are on the other side of something uncomfortable. Like, a marriage deepens when you have an uncomfortable conversation. Your relationship with your adult children grows when you move into the uncomfortable territory of realizing they're adults and they don't need your parenting anymore. They need your mentorship, which is different. in eating healthy, you have to make uncomfortable choices. Like you have to detox your taste buds from sugar in order to have a healthier body. You have to work out, which is uncomfortable. You have to get sweaty. I mean, everything that we want in life is on the other side of something that's uncomfortable to us. And if you look at it that way, then what do you have to lose? I don't know who the quote is based on, but my brother shared with me, he's like. The biggest task is to get comfortable being uncomfortable. And I think he shared that to me sometime right after the divorce, maybe while I was separated. I don't know, but that really impacted me. I stayed in my comfort zone post divorce for a couple of years. There was some healing that wasn't comfortable, but at least it was like all within my four walls. And then I started venturing out. COVID kind of pushed me back in the house. And then after that, I'm like, okay, it's, it's really time to take the, all the inner lessons that I've learned. To take them out of the classroom and practice them in the real world. And that for me involved, online dating and, relationship building.

Hoyt: 54:32

And so it led to this relationship that you're in right now. So, this has been evolving for a while now, and I've had the opportunity to meet this fella, and I love him. He's fantastic, and you guys are great together, but I would not have predicted that pairing. Like, um, when you started this process.

Betsy: 54:54

I truthfully didn't know that, that there was a man like him on the planet. He is very, very well made for me or a compliment to me. never would have expected it to come out of online dating. But I have to say that even if I didn't meet him and online dating didn't end in a relationship, it ended with a better relationship with me. as they say, the only person that you are in relationship with your entire life is yourself. Like, you don't have your parents your whole life, you don't have your siblings your whole life, you don't have your friends your whole life. The only person that you have is yourself. And so for me, it's always my responsibility to foster that relationship with myself, which then allows me to have a more authentic, honest, open, relationship with somebody else.

Hoyt: 55:58

Well, that's a great place to end this, Betsy. And I really appreciate your coming today. the series is all around adventures in online dating. And it's posted up on, Good Better Next. It's also, posted on Medium, right?

Betsy: 56:14

Yes, I am slowly loading all of them onto my Medium page, and you can find me there at medium. com, Betsy Barnum Morris, uh.

Hoyt: 56:24

Morris, yes,

Betsy: 56:26

they were all originally written for Good Better Next. A dear friend and I were working hard to build an online community for divorced women and life got the better of us and took us in a couple of different directions. Um, but those. Lessons that we learned in something that didn't work out is just like the lessons that you might learn in online dating. It doesn't always have to work out to still lead you in a really positive direction for your life.

Hoyt: 57:00

can still be a path for growth, right?

Betsy: 57:02

Still be a path for growth. Yes, Hoyt.

Hoyt: 57:05

Well, Betsy, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on today. This was fantastic. And I know that people, not only people who are following Julie's journey, but just people who are like considering getting online, that this has to be very encouraging for them. And I really appreciate your sharing your stories.

Betsy: 57:22

Well, thank you so much Hoyt. Thanks for having me on.

Hoyt: 57:29

And that wraps it up for today's episode of behind this wipe. I want to extend a heartfelt thank you to Betsy Morris for sharing her incredible journey with us, her insights into overcoming anxiety, navigating expectations, creating an authentic profile And learning to filter matches have been truly enlightening. We've touched on some powerful things today. The courage that it takes to start online dating. The challenges are presenting oneself authentically. The importance of adaptability. And the emotional highs and lows that come with the territory. Betsy's experiences. Coupled with our ongoing Julie's journey series, offer a comprehensive look at what it means to step back into the dating world after a significant life change. And For those of you who want to dive deeper into Betsy's story, we'll be putting links to each of her Adventures in online dating posts on our Instagram feed At behind the swipe podcast. Be sure to check them out for more detailed insights and reflections. As we've seen. Re-entering the dating scene can be filled with both challenges and opportunities for growth. It requires courage, patience, and a willingness to be vulnerable. I remember you're not alone. Many have walked this path and found not just new relationships. But also deeper connections with themselves. To everyone out there navigating this journey. Keep going. There's hope and potential for joy and fulfillment ahead. Trust in the process, be kind to yourself. And stay open to the possibilities. Thank you for joining us on Behind the Swipe. I'm your host Hoyt Prisock. Until next time. Keep swiping. And keep believing in the love that lies ahead. And there's always. Swiped fearlessly.