Hoyt: 0:39

Welcome to this episode of Behind the Swipe. I'm your host Hoyt Prisock. Have you ever found yourself trapped in the shadow of a failed relationship? Unable to step into the light of new possibilities. You're not alone. The emotional baggage from breakups and divorces can weigh heavily on our hearts. Shaping our future in ways that we might not even realize. Today, we're delving into a topic that touches the heart. Of anyone who's ever loved and lost. Joining us today is Dr. Karin Luise. An expert in the field of personal growth and healing. Dr. Karin with her extensive background as an author and life coach. We'll help us navigate the intricate process of healing from past hurts And stepping into a brighter future. Today, we'll explore the invisible threads that past relationships weave into the fabric of our lives. And how acknowledging and healing these emotional scars. Can open the door to new fulfilling connections. Dr. Karin and we'll share not only her professional insights. But also her personal journey of transformation. Offering a roadmap for anyone ready to leave their emotional baggage behind. And embrace the promise of new beginnings. So, whether you're navigating the choppy waters of online dating. Or seeking to deepen your understanding of love and loss. This episode promises to enlighten, inspire and empower. Stay tuned. As we embark on this journey of letting go healing. And rediscovering love in its many forms. I am so pleased to have Dr. Karin Luise here at Behind the Swipe once again. You may remember that she joined us for an episode last year. on Is Chemistry Real? And you are a fantastic expert for us. it was one of our most listened to episodes, so I am pleased to have you back here to talk about a topic that I think most of us who have been in multiple relationships over our lifetimes have experienced. And that is it ended poorly. There was a breakup, there was a divorce, and often a lot of pain associated with that. And it's not only that as a divorced person you've got to process that, and you've got to elevate yourself to a higher level of consciousness about your contribution to that. breakup But, there's a high risk of taking that into future relationships. And you're the perfect person to talk to about that, because I remember reading a blog post that you had put together on how past relationships are keeping you stuck and what you can do about it. Dr. Karin, welcome to Behind the Swipe.

Karin: 3:30

Mm. Thank you so much. We have so much to unpack and I think everybody can relate to this. That's why they're listening to your podcast. So let's dive in.

Hoyt: 3:37

Let's dive in. So you talked a little bit in your blog post about your personal story after divorce and how it took you some iterations to really figure this whole thing out. Can you recount your story for our audience?

Karin: 3:53

Oh yeah, I would love to. And this is why I do the work I do, you do this podcast because you want to help people, you want to streamline things for people through the things that you've learned. And you know, the reason that I coach people now, usually through big life transformations and very specifically through getting past divorce and starting a new in your life and raising your consciousness is because not only have I researched it and got a degree in counseling and education and psychology, but I've lived it. And I've done it. I've made the mistakes and I've tripped over the hurdles myself. And so I really would love to share with people, look, even though I have a PhD and I've got, 25 years experience working on this, I've also experienced it. And, we teach what we've learned. I'll just throw it out there that I've been actually divorced twice. once about the age of 30 and once at the age of 44. And, now I'm in my early fifties. And so I've had almost 10 years now to look Um, being single for 10 years, but also having relationships and going through, reconciling the pain that I experienced very publicly in my first divorce. I was divorced from a professional athlete here in Atlanta. And, Went through a very public, humiliation, abandonment and a lot of betrayal and it hit the news. And I was like, everything was like unearthed in my life. And it was really, really painful. And it became my identity for probably a decade. It's like it followed me and I would try to get new relationships, but I was so wounded from that divorce that it. took me, I would say the better part of a decade cause I didn't have the tools that I have now. And, one of the things that I learned during that breakup is how it unearthed a lot of my childhood wounding. I ended up writing a book called The Fatherless Daughter Project. And so it Behooved me to go back and really repair what that divorce had unearthed, which was, being abandoned by my own father, being abused by my own father, and it recreated itself in the marriage. And so, I had the choice. So it's always a choice. Am I going to sit in this identity, which I did for quite a while. And I was the victim and I had every right to be the victim, I could have written books and done movies on it. it was very worthy of that. But I had the opportunity to make a choice and I've continued to make the choice to raise my consciousness and raise my awareness and being more so consciousness just means you're more aware, you're more conscious of what's happening. that was some 20, 25 years ago. And what has happened since then is it's like, What choice do I have now? And this is what I want. It's probably going to keep coming up as we discuss this. What choice do you have to grow? So do you want to stay rooted in the last relationship and the pain that you've suffered? You want to stay in your victim story, even if you have every right to and you're victimized in every way. I know, been there, done that, got the t shirt. How is that serving you? And how is it keeping you trapped and most specifically, reliving that pain in continuing relationships and repeating it and attracting because, I really believe in law of attraction. I've been studying it for about 20 years and it's that, what you believe to be true and what you believe is going to play out is what you'll attract again. So there came a point where I wanted to be responsible for my own magnetism, which I still am working on, but it's like, if I am wrapping myself with a story and I listen, For this, when I work with clients, it's kind of a, it's, it's a big red flag and I don't want to say that you're wrong, but it's a big flag of, I need help here for me when I'm talking to clients. When, if I hear the victim's story being told over and over again, and I hear you saying things like everybody cheats, there are no good guys out there, everyone abandons me, everyone has abandoned me, and you're really stuck to telling the same story. That is the magnetism that you energetically are having come off of your body. And your heart is 60 times more magnetizing than your brain. And so all of that is embedding in your heart and you're going to be attracting relationships that kind of match that. So I go off on energetics cause I can't help myself. You know how I do. I've got to bring the woo woo in. But the point is, Are you willing to let go of retelling that story and holding onto that identity and raise your consciousness and grow and create something different? And so that's what I really want to unpack the steps to recreating something different. And if someone's listening to this podcast, my guess is you are ready and we're going to give you the steps.

Hoyt: 7:49

Karin, before we get into what people can do, with themselves to improve their relationships after a painful breakup or divorce. let's talk about the initial causes of that. let's talk about what those kinds of pain and wounding are and how they manifest differently, Based on what kind of wound it really is. let's then talk about the kinds of manifestations that happen with that, like the negative effects that result from carrying that with you, both internally and externally, because it has effects not only on you, but on potential romantic partners that you might be engaging with. and in the second half of the show, I want to really dig into Okay, so what's a plan of action? If I recognize this kind of behavior in myself, what can I do, to get to the other side of this, to get to a better place? So let's go back and start with, you mentioned a couple of things. You mentioned infidelity, you mentioned abandonment, Let's talk about those two and then let's see if there are others that people tend to carry with them because you have worked with a lot of clients that have come to you with exactly these kinds of challenges.

Karin: 9:03

I love it. You want to talk about the wounding because that's going to offer everybody compassion and for everybody, that is a place that we really need. Need to feel heard it's like it needs to be aired out. It needs to be given voice. It needs to be given identity. And that's always where I start with clients, like before we move forward. Let's talk about why this is here. So when they, when the things pop up again, we recognize those little, like it's like whack a mole, you know, they pop up, we know, Oh, that's the little guy, that's the wounding. So you just, repeated infidelity and abandonment. So what I've learned, working with thousands of people, all over the world is it's that wound of abandonment is, is the strongest one being really, really scared of being alone. whether the person leaves you or whatever factor makes you create a situation where you are alone and it could be leaving the relationship like that is what keeps people stuck for the longest. And it usually is traced back to a childhood wound, Either actively being abandoned by a parent, physically through death or, incarceration, uh, just a parent leaving. There are many, many ways a parent can abandon you. Or if it was, just an emotional abandonment, like your parents weren't around or your dad was spending way too much time in his office and nobody even knew what was going on in your world. So When we feel in any way, really abandoned to do things by ourselves as a child, and we felt kind of unable to manage, our emotions, our sense of safety, when that gets tripped again in a relationship, and I'm speaking out of my own experience as well, the wound is really, really deep. So I want to just reach out and give everybody giant hugs because this is so relatable for people. It's something that people don't realize. I have a client right now who, um, Every time she and her husband and she's on her second marriage, they get in a fight. She immediately, plans an exit plan for packing her bags and leaving. And what we've identified is that she wants to jump and run because she's so afraid of being abandoned that she goes ahead and creates an exit plan so she doesn't get abandoned. And it's because when she was little, she was given up. for adoption and then was raised by a family who the dad died when he, when she was really young. So she was abandoned again physically. And there was, and then her mom died when she was in her twenties. And this experience of abandonment as a girl growing up and even as a young woman. There's a sense of safety that when people stick around that is part of our innate need as children. you have Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and right after air, food, and water, you have security and a sense of belonging. And when we are in a sense abandoned by a parent, that next need of survival, which is security, gets ripped from us. And so when we don't have that growing up, and I can't tell you Hoyt the number of people that can relate to this, you will, subconsciously then in relationships, Try to leave before you're left or immediately, create a fight or just, there's many, many ways that people will react in fear, right? I used to get like crazy, and now I recognize when I start getting the tipping point because I recognize, Oh my gosh, What I, what I teach people to do now is really recognizing, really recognizing and voicing what you're feeling. Because if you can just air out, wow, like I just got tripwired because this actually, yes, my last husband left me and abandoned me. The reason why this is such a deep wound for me is actually because My mom died when I was younger. My dad, abandoned the family, or I found out my dad had a second family, like whatever it is. And it happens so often and then really taking, ownership of your own playing out of that emotional wound. The other wounding is, the infidelity wounding and it's very closely tied to that abandonment wounding. Cause really in betrayal, there's a sense of abandonment. So those two are really, really close. And what happens with the betrayal wounding, and I've done that. I mean, my first husband had, literally hundreds of affairs. It was like, I went through it exponentially. There were babies. I couldn't get pregnant. When I went through that again with my, I mean, it was such a deep wound. I didn't want to live anymore. That's how bad it was. But I also, in therapy, in my own work, I knew that it went back to my own childhood. My dad, my natural dad gave me up for adoption to a stepdad who abused me. And I was abused inside the home by multiple people. Like, I don't know. I know my shit, right? Like I know, I'm so much healthier now, but back when that happened, when I was about 28 to 30, my first divorce, like I wasn't nearly where I am now. And I ended up just going into such a dark place and just acting crazy. And the marriage just got really chaotic. And when you're looking at the betrayal wound, what is under it is I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy of love. So for me specifically, having a father who betrayed my mom, we found out he was having multiple affairs, my stepdad, he was abusing me. it was very wide and deep. But the point is, when it happened to me again, that wound up, I'm not good enough. Like my whole childhood, what I wanted, what came out of it was, why didn't you pick me dad? Like he eventually abandoned our family. My stepdad did, and my real dad had given me up, right? So the wounding was, why didn't you pick me? So that is what gets tripwired, right? So when there's infidelity, if you have a deep wounding from childhood and you're playing it out again, that is what is hurting in you. Why did you pick someone else? And so as time goes on, what I've learned is that infidelity has nothing to do with you and your value. It has everything to do. With the other person and whatever is empty inside of them, right? And so that has taken work. But I think the other deep wounding, is the wound of not being heard and valued. Like that is another core one that I've seen play out and that I've experienced too, is that people have repeated, relationships with maybe people that seem narcissistic or that are full blown narcissists. And what ends up playing out in those relationships is you're not valued. And even if it's not a narcissist, if there's a core wound that maybe you weren't really seen or heard as a child, that you were kind of brushed off and nobody really attended your events and you were left to raise yourself and you really weren't allowed to speak up, share your emotions, we will tend to attract partners even though it's not safe, it's familiar. And we will repeat that wound again. And so then, again, it's on us to be conscious. So those are the three main ones I see. The abandonment, the betrayal, and then the not being valued and seen and heard for who you really are.

Hoyt: 14:59

Well, that's a great explanation of that, Dr. Karin. let me ask you, because you made an interesting point here as you were explaining that, that all of these after effects of these behaviors are operating on a subconscious level. So, it's not like you're consciously choosing these behaviors that are undermining your success, Or your happiness. These are happening underneath. And so if you can't recognize them, then you're destined to repeat those. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Karin: 15:32

Yeah. Well, that's why this conversation is so important. And I'm hoping that people are having aha moments. So when we're not aware, we will most definitely repeat it because, it's interesting, one of the ways that you'll know it's a really deep subconscious wound is when to outside people, it seems like a very simple, well, why don't you leave? Like people looking in are like, it seems so simple, And it's like for you, you're like, Oh my gosh, this is not simple because there are so many layers to it. And so if you can just take those steps back and really just be, and you don't have to do it forever. So this is one of the things too, like you don't have to work on this your whole life. You don't have to do inner child work forever. It can actually be with the right expert, like a pretty simplified process. Although it does mean going directly into it because if you can just Unmask, the illusion that you somehow, are meant to live this way, that somehow because, you're sensitive to this, like when we've been really deeply wounded as a child, there's a subconscious belief that we deserve this. At least I learned this about myself, even though I would never admit that outwardly, I had a subconscious belief that men cheat and that I, uh, Was even though, again, not conscious, I would, you know, slap you if you said that I thought that, but it was evident that something in my inner belief system believed that this is what love was about. So the push and pull and chaotic relationships that I had witnessed growing up and that I was recreating and I was a part of, it in, relationships when I was younger. And it was because I had this subconscious belief that you had to win love, that the man leaves and betrays and like abuses you. And the more chaotic it is and the more they love bomb you when you come back, like that's love. Like the more jealous they are, the more they love you. I mean, I'm actually writing right now. My book, Gravity, which I've been writing forever. I'd put it down for a few years. I just picked it back up two years ago and I'm reading and I'm like, Oh my gosh, like it's so clear to me now and I want to save your listeners time because it's like now as I look back and I'm looking at the stories that I'd written like literally 20 years ago when I started writing this book after my first divorce, I'm writing it from a whole new mindset now. It's about regaining yourself after relationships lose, regaining your gravity. but The repetitive cycle that I was in because of this subconscious belief, when I finally learned that, and then really at the end of the day, what I not only had to work on was the cycle that I was repeating because of subconscious beliefs, but what came up through it was I didn't know how to love myself. And it sounds like rhetoric, but really what's under it. is we weren't taught, those of you that were raised in the seventies, like that just wasn't a thing. Like, yeah, people were coming out of the sixties and there was free love and all that, but like, nobody really went to therapy unless you were in the hippie, world. people weren't getting help like they are now. And so all of those things. Emotions were intended to so then here we all are in our 40s, 50s, 60s, and we are Reparenting ourselves and there are resources out there to help you realize What is subconscious pretty quickly bring it to the surface and identify it so you then can become the manager of your own life And so one of the keys is that you don't continue to drop I call it a vertical trip wire where you immediately when you get triggered, it like drops you back into like basically being a seven or 15 year old again, like when that wound started. And it's, it's a matter of managing that trip wire so you don't go vertical. So you catch it right before you drop deep in and go, wow, okay, this is the one where I start to get scared and afraid. I know what I used to do. How can I do things differently?

Hoyt: 18:46

it's when you identify the actions and the behaviors that are not serving you well, you can take advantage of steps that will help you get to a better place. But if you're not recognizing them in the first place, You're just going to step into them all over again. I was just going to mention that, it's interesting that you talk about the therapy difference in generations here, because I've been referencing the singles in America study that match. com does every year. And one of the big findings that I was surprised by, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that, is that in our generations, we all thought that if you were in therapy, you must be broken, There was a stigma attached to that, that nobody wanted to admit to, and so Very few of us went out to actually get the help. And God forbid we ever tell anybody that we did, because we would be judged that way, And so I think that's a generational thing. But when they were asking the generation of people that are 35 and 25 about this, they're saying, I'm not going to date anybody that hasn't been in therapy. It's amazing, like that whole shift in consciousness, and it actually is, hopeful for the younger generation. You know, we have to kind of deal with our own shit now, right?

Karin: 20:03

Yeah, for sure. And I'm glad you brought that up. it's 10 X for men and the shame around, because there was an idea that something's broken. the metaphor I always use is I'm like, look, you have, an accountant helping with your taxes. You have a lawyer that deals with your stuff. You have someone cleaning your teeth. you've got all these professionals out there that you pay. That you visit regularly. this is a huge component in your life. It's your soul work. It's your emotional body. And I can't tell you how much it helps when you have done the work on recognizing and coming into your own ownership of what the issues are and you actually resolving it. I mean, I will tell you, Hoyt, it is a requirement for me to now being single in my fifties, I will not date anyone that hasn't done some kind of work that hasn't opened up something. Honestly, I have a requirement that you have to have gone through something really big or you're never going to get me and you, you have to face some big loss in your life. I'm in my fifties dating and you have to have done something where you've raised your own awareness and raised your consciousness. And then Wanting to continue to grow because if not, we're not going to be a match because when you're stagnant, especially if you're still blaming everybody else for your issues, because that's the other part of it. When we're stuck and we're not conscious, there comes a point where we're blaming other people constantly. So if I hear someone telling me that every one of their exes are crazy and there's everything is about blame, they haven't owned that. There are two sides, right? There are two sides to every story. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. And, I own that too. I've come to such full circle in my past relationships, the way that I talk about them than I have in the past, and I really want to empower people to understand the more conscious you are, it's sexy as hell when When you're like owning your stuff and the right person that is ready, that's also done it is going to think that that's amazing about you. The person that isn't owning it up and it doesn't want to talk about their own shit is not at your level. So the great thing is that even though it makes the dating pool smaller, you're going to be attracting someone that is at such a higher state of consciousness and your chances of repeating it become nil because you've got new requirements yourself. So there's My extra dating advice for dating and you're, yeah.

Hoyt: 22:05

that, that's great advice. That's great advice. so let's talk about the impact. We've talked a lot about the impact on you for carrying around these wounds that you tend to repeat. But let's talk about potential partners. I know for me one of the giant red flags in dating was when a woman would talk incessantly about how bad her ex was, about how terrible her marriage was. Because what you were talking about there is exactly the point. They clearly haven't done. enough work on themselves to take at least some ownership. Were they wrong? I'm sure they were, But they were complicit in this because of their behavior. And the evidence that represented a red flag for me was, well, they clearly continue to be. So can we talk more about those behaviors and how it impacts other people and how it's potentially repelling exactly the kind of person that you might want to meet.

Karin: 23:02

It's so true. And I've done it. I've done it. I did it out of my first marriage. It's funny. I look back and I'm like, I remember specifically sitting across from a guy and like the entire dinner, I literally talked about my ex husband the entire dinner. And I mean, I look back on that and I'm like, What? But again, but I wasn't ready, right? And it's not sexy. nobody wants to hear it. So here's the thing. I think that yes, there's a repellent, but it's also a sign that you're not quite ready. And I know that makes you probably want to slap me if you're still there. here's kind of a thing. You've got to tell the story for a while, right? If you're fresh out of a divorce and you've had some of this trauma, you need to have space. I love you and I would support you and I always offer you so much compassion in your story. But for you to move forward, you have to get that story out like over and over and over again. And that is where the therapist, the counselor, the coach, somebody that can sit in a whole space for you. They've shown in research, even if that expert doesn't do anything, You just being heard and validated is going to help you heal. So please do that because you need to be telling the story in a safe space and use dropping all your F bombs and just doing it, unabashed without filter is so that you can get those emotions out and name them and to process trauma. That is a necessary stage. Please give yourself that time because you've got to exhaust it until you can You know, what's happening when you're telling the story is your mind and your heart are trying to understand what happened. Because when you've been wounded like that, you're stuck because you can't make sense of it because you would never do what that person did to you. So you've got to retell the story so that your head and your heart can find a way to meet each other again because they've been completely shattered and separated because your mental and emotional body is haywire. Okay. So let me just say that. Say that. Then once you have done that, put a time frame on it. Like give your, It's not that you can't date for six months. It's not that at all. But I would just say give yourself six to nine months. You can, please still have fun. Please still, if you want to go on a date, that's fine. But make sure you are doing that so you don't bleed that wound all over somebody else. Because at some point you're going to need to tell that story. If you are consistently bringing this up on dates and you find yourself, oh my god, I went on and on about my ex again. You Notice yourself. Be conscious of it. Don't beat yourself up. Give yourself love and say, wow, I may need to keep telling this story because they say, if you haven't healed your wound, you're going to bleed it all over the next person that it basically has nothing to do with. It is not up to your future partner to heal what happened to you in your divorce or your last breakup. It is not their responsibility to be your therapist, just like it's not their responsibility to be your dentist or your masseuse or whatever other helper you have in your life. It is up to you to be the manager of your life. if you're keeping a lot of relics around you, like it's okay, but you're not in the place where you really are creating space for a potential partner that matches you. And at that time period of letting go of all those things, it's painful. Recognize that when you're going through that, you're going to feel grief. there are identifiable stages of grief. there are a lot of stages to it and what you're feeling besides all of that wounding. When you're getting divorced, you're feeling deep grief, right? And so any old, Unhealed grief wound of other losses you had are going to come up. Honor yourself because that next person, you want to create a relationship with someone that has also done their work that isn't looking to you to be their therapist. Because when you're starting, and I know cause I've done this, I've had to really, so being a therapist myself and a trained therapist, a counselor coach, I have to really police myself because I naturally fall into that role with men And this has just been the past few years where I've realized because then later I end up resenting them because I've like become their therapist slash mom, whatever. Right. So I literally will stop myself on the phone with men when I can hear myself getting into it. And I'm like, damn it, I'm starting to become their therapist again. And I will literally pull myself back and I turn the conversation to where I give them more ownership over figuring things out. Not that I don't support them, but you guys know what I mean? Like that makes sense where it's kind of like, we're here to be in, in, um, I. And the same wavelength, we're here to help each other, not for one to then fall into a role. If you've had a role in relationships that you later resented, be really aware that you don't want to create that again because it causes that imbalance. So I know I've gone off on tangents, but I feel like people really needed to hear that because it's a really natural thing. So the main thing that I would say as you're realizing that and you're becoming more consciousness is how can I do things differently to grow? Because you want someone else that's grown. So for you to attract. That do the work to grow yourself and to become more conscious and responsible for your stuff so that you're not entering a relationship that mimics the chaos that was in your last one. I have so much to say on this point

Hoyt: 27:36

we've talked a little bit about how you need to talk about it. You need to get this out of you in a prospective romantic relationship. Let's say you've, you've begun to recognize that you've got these behaviors, but it's a fine line between. Oversharing and undersharing. So how do people navigate that?

Karin: 27:58

yeah. It's such a dance, right? It's such a dance, and I'm still doing it myself. It's, we're all doing it. I think that, I think it's checking with yourself. So there comes a point when you're starting to come into union with somebody where it's become past dating and you're, and the relationship is becoming more concrete to where Honesty is really important. You know, there is a time when you definitely should be sharing, Hey, here's what's happened to me. I think it's really important to share what you're afraid of and unpack that with people without making it your identity. here's the thing that I would say to myself as I'm dating, it's like, I want to share it from a place of being vulnerable and saying, When it's appropriate, not the first date, not the second date, not the third date. maybe a couple of months down the road, just being like, here's the deal. Like when you want to start sharing and opening up, you know what, like last night you got a call and you left the dinner table. You know what's funny? The first thing I thought of was maybe that was your ex or maybe you're dating somebody else. And it made me a little afraid. And I really want to own that. But I also want you to know, I have a history of this and I want to be super honest with you because I don't want to repeat it. So the thing that I say in my head, When, I start to share about my last relationship or five relationships ago is I will say, Karin, do not bring that person into this relationship. I want to honor this new man, this new person. if I'm really liking him and I feel a potential, I don't want him to be overshadowed by what happened with my ex. And he doesn't want to be, he doesn't want to be emasculated. He doesn't want to bear the weight of what my ex did. That's not fair to him. So I, I stop and check myself. Or am I bringing my ex into this relationship? Cause we don't need the three of us in here. Right. And that is a big thing that I see people do because they're always blaming, or if you're having interaction with your ex because of your kids, just check yourself. for me, one of the things that I do and I would, and I work with clients on this daily, what is your intention? So when you're bringing it up, so when we're talking about sharing and oversharing, just stop for a minute, just pause, and as you continue to implant this kind of practice in your head, you'll start to do it more naturally. Pause and say, what is my intention? What is the reason why I need to bring this up? What is the reason why I want to share that my ex husband cheated on me and had a baby with someone else? what would the reason be? Okay, so it could be that I want sympathy. It could be that I want to trash my ex. So those are both ego, right? That's me and my ego. Or is it that I'm feeling really close with this person and I want to be more vulnerable and I want to share it from my heart and just share more about my story without Shaming my ex and making it about me being one up what an asshole, right? that's ego So that's where I would check myself or can I come from my heart? Like here is some wounding that I have and I'm really working on this and you know These kinds of things kind of make me afraid but I really want to work on doing things better So that's where I would check. What's your intention? Is it ego, Is it serving to make someone else look bad or is it heart? To where you really are saying something to bring closeness in the relationship and be a little bit more open to, to bring more vulnerability because that's what will help you grow closer.

Hoyt: 30:56

Perfect. And I think that's the perfect place for us to take a little bit of a break. And then in the second half of the show, Dr. Karin, I want to talk about, all right, you've started to recognize this, you recognize behaviors that are having you step in that same hole over and over again, and have these painful experiences What can they do and what should they do to get to the other side? And we'll get to that right after the break. We have a very exciting new initiative in the works for the next few months, and we need your help. In conjunction with our partner. Good, better. next.com. We are organizing a network of your favorite podcast in one, easy to find place. Our hope is that it will become the go-to place to find your next favorite podcast. And this is where you come in. Do you have two or three favorite podcasts where the content is focused on the topics that women over 45 are most interested in? We want to know. We'll feature categories on not just dating and relationships like behind the swipe. But health. Wellness exercise fitness. The natural and career goals and challenges. And even categories for fun and travel. So if you know, a great podcast that might belong and is worthy of being discovered by other listeners, like you. Please reach out to me by DM-ing me on Instagram or Facebook. Or just drop me at hoyt@behindtheswipe.com. And stay tuned for exciting news on this initiative over the next few months. Now let's get back to the second half of our show. We are back here at Behind the Swipe, and I'm here with Dr. Karin, Dr Karin is an author and life coach and she specializes on working with people who are trying to elevate their consciousness and improve relationships Throughout their lives. Dr. Karin, welcome back after the break here

Karin: 32:58

Thank you so much. Let's get into it. let's give'em some

Hoyt: 33:01

So but before we do just remind people where they can find you and of some of your programs and books that they might be interested in

Karin: 33:09

I would love that. So my handle everywhere is Dr. Karin and you have to spell it out So it's D-O-C-T-O-R-K-A-R-I n.com. And that's my handle on Instagram. Facebook, I'm Dr. Karin. You know, first place I love for people to jump in if they want to come into my world is I have a quiz. It's free. It's called the Soul Inventory. You can find it anywhere on my website. It's in my link tree on my IG, or you can just type in soulinventory. com. It's a free quiz to have you look at it's like a 12 point assessment of where you are in your life, where maybe the gaps are, where you're killing it and where you can focus moving forward. So I would say, if you just want to check out. My work, that would be a great place to jump in. And if you're interested in working with me, there's also an application to work with me on my site. And, I love having new people come in my tribe through podcasts like this. So if we resonate, let me know where you found me and let's connect.

Hoyt: 34:00

that's perfect. And I think that's especially important for people to know because we're laser beam focused on one particular area today that you happen to also have personal experience with. You work with people across a broad spectrum, so I wanted to make sure that our audience really understood that. Alright, let's get back into this topic because I'm totally into this. Alright. Now I've started to recognize that some of my behaviors are coming from an unconscious place and I'm tending to not leave a gap between these stimuli that come up in relationships and my response. unaware that It is resulting from maybe childhood wounds or early relationship wounds, let's talk about, all right, from this perspective of I've started to recognize this, what can I do to make things better for myself?

Karin: 34:53

Well, the first question I would ask you is, Do you want to change? The first question is always, the most powerful one because literally it's the launching point of awareness. Because what is the payoff in of me staying here and being in this cycle, Even though it's been painful, like a lot of times people that get stuck in these cycles, there is a subconscious belief that they're meant to be victimized. And the payoff is sympathy. The payoff is they don't have to take responsibility. And again, these are subconscious. I'm not here to shame anyone. I've done this. but being aware of what victim consciousness is and why we tend to repeat, and it's very often that we weren't given the tools growing up to think that we can do things on our own. So we basically subconsciously will repeat cycles and pick partners where we get engaged in the same painful cycles and we're not taking responsibility. And then we get to blame them, So the cycle continues and look what everyone did to me and you stay stuck. So my first question is, and this is going to empower you and it's so simple. Okay. Recognize the payoff and then say to yourself, The question, do I really want to change? Am I willing to let go of whatever the payoff was, even if it's subconscious, of staying in this cycle and do something different to create something new? If you are really ready and really ready to work on and become aware of your responsibility, instead of blaming something outside of you, you're at the beautiful tipping point of creating change in your life. And I will not work with anybody that isn't willing to do that. that is one of my questions on my application, because that is where the empowerment piece goes. is and Hoyt, I cannot tell you the number of people that aren't willing to do that. I cannot tell you the number of people in this world that, want to keep telling the victim's story and you'll always hear that when it's laced in blame. And even though there is some validity to it, you're never going to move out of the quicksand that you're in if you're continuously blaming your parents and your ex for everything that happened to you and you're not willing to take responsibility. And I say that with the most loving, hard hug that I can ever give. Love on you with, because that's something that I had to do in my own life. And so then, as you're moving forward, you will find a way of refining your story in a way that tells it with truth, but also tells it with this beautiful vulnerability and ownership. And again, I cannot tell you how sexy that is for your future partner. When I meet men that say to me, I cannot tell you Hoyt, when I meet a man and instead of saying, Oh, my ex was crazy, you know, we, all those stories. And he says to me, you know, she did this, but you know, If I'm truthful, I actually blah, blah, blah. And I hear him take ownership. I get so turned on and excited. Cause I'm like, this is a man. I'm not perfect, but you're willing to own your stuff. So if you want more of that, that's the question that I want you to answer for yourself. And then it is when we'll talk about them, taking the inspired steps to move yourself out of that quick stand, because you guys don't want to keep repeating. You're here to grow. So let's dive into some really good actionable steps for them to take that are really conscious Instead of living in this subconscious pattern that will keep Recreating itself until you make that choice that you're ready and you start undoing The pattern that you've made familiar in your life

Hoyt: 37:54

And Dr. Karin, when you recognize that, and you make a commitment to, yes, I want to be intentional about making a change You have to do that recognizing that it's probably not going to be easy. It's not going to be comfortable. Some pieces of this are going to be re experiencing some pain and taking ownership of that. So how do you prepare somebody for it? how do you couch the journey for them that encompasses how difficult it's going to be to do that and still maintain that encouragement?

Karin: 38:25

because the end result is that you want to grow and the definition of insanity, is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So if you want different results, one of the hardest things is in creating change. Isn't the reason, this is the reason why I brought up the payoff is recognizing that there was a payoff. Before and it became familiar and the victim story does tend to have tremendous payoffs. And when you're, so what happens when you're telling the victim story, and this came up as you were just asking me that question, the way it ends up looking is, and you guys know cause y'all y'all have done it. I've done it. We've all done it. You'll sit and it can be a group of women or it can be on a date and people start talking about their exes, right? Like I can pretty much trump everybody's story with horrible ex stories, right? And you're feeding it, right? Like A gaggle of geese. You're sitting there and everyone's chirping about how horrible, you know, you And that gets bigger and bigger. So what's happening when you're doing that is you're creating an energy, a ball of energy around that. And each one of you then is going to be emanating from that. And what's happening with you internally when you're in that situation, Oh, let me tell you this story. Oh, my ex was so, my ex cheated on me. And I'm like, well, I got, my ex had a baby outside, I can keep going and going. But the thing is, I'm getting a dopamine hit. Okay. So when I'm telling that or when I'm diving into writing a blog post on it or joining the group on Facebook or whatever it is, and we're telling the story and my ex sucked or you're on a date with somebody and maybe their ex is hitting them up on the phone and she's been in rehab. Oh, let me tell you about my drunk ex. Hey, bigger, bigger, bigger. So you're getting a payoff of a dopamine hit because you're getting the satisfaction of like one upping them and you're in this. So you, so what happens is there becomes this addiction to it. Um, we've been taught to do this. So I'm tying this into what you said, because I want you to start realizing how much you're attaching yourself to your past by getting into these things that have been normalized. And it is these conversations, whether it is live or it's virtual or it's in these Facebook groups and you start going off, I have to catch myself. Like I'll see something like a post on a narcissist. You know, I've been married. To one or two and and oh, I've got so many things to say and I even now like I know I'm like, okay Karin, if I get into this and I have so much to say here and it's not that it's not always appropriate Because if it can help somebody it is appropriate, but I will stop myself and say what am I? I'm gonna get a dopamine hit here right by going after what is the again? What is the reason for me doing this? It is going to be shaming somebody else. It's going to be like, look at me. I'm the expert here. Look how victimized I've been. Whoa. Wow. Now I'm conscious that I'm going back to that victim story. I'm feeding that same thing. So I want you to recognize that there's a Familiarity to blowing these stories up that our bodies have been used to doing. so the part that ties to what you just said, which is it's really uncomfortable and you're not going to get the dopamine hit when you bow out of these conversations. So that is the catch. am I willing to not one up everyone's story Am I willing to walk away or shift this conversation? And even though I'm not going to get, all of this, victim based, applause based on my story being amazing. can I shift this to something that is one more from the heart based and number two, that it's going to help me grow. And number three, that it's going to be more about lightness and what I really want moving forward. So the difference there is that. You're going to be moving into a zone that's going to be more uncomfortable. It is going to be walking away from these patterns that you've been used to doing, but I can promise you, the more you shift away from that, even though you're going to be missing out on the engagement, you're not going to, because what happens when you're doing that is you're going to be carrying that vibration of that energy and it's a magnet, right? And I'm really diving on this. In a large way, because I think this is one of the most common things that people do, especially in this age of just sharing, infinite amount of content everywhere. Um, if you can stop that one thing, you're going to be doing such a service to yourself and what you're going to notice in your life is that then you're opening up space and you're pausing and you're opening up space for something different to come in. So yeah, you're doing. Something different. And that is how you create change. It is uncomfortable. It's not going to be familiar, but what you're going to find then is it's like walking into a new garden, right? You're going to, you're going to be walking through a gateway and it's like, what's possible here? What can we talk about instead? That's going to have us grow like shifting that conversation. Like, I was reading like something like a book you were reading or a positive blog post that, or, or, Podcasts you just listened to that is about growth and about taking responsibility for your life and dreams that you have. So being more conscious about shifting the focus of your conversations and the, just the focus of your focus, how many podcasts you're listening to, or not even that, yes, podcasts, but, um, blog posts or anything that Feeds that old monster that keeps you looking at how horrible the world is, how horrible your ex is. Start practicing and recognizing how much because that monster is feeding itself off of your engagement and your focus. And that would be the first place that I would start. I hope I drove that home because it's really important.

Hoyt: 43:18

Absolutely. So, Dr. Karina, are there any little, behavioral techniques or anything that help you recognize that and do the disconnect at the time?

Karin: 43:27

Right. Well, yes, the one which is, what is the reason I'm doing this? What's the intention? I stopping yourself. What is the intention? Literally. So there are questions, cause I practice these and they work literally stopping yourself because you'll get a payoff, but if you can just stop and say, what is my intention and knowing I really want to grow, I want my consciousness to raise, how can I raise this to a higher consciousness? What topic here feels right to me? Feels like it's more about love and more about, um, me going to a place where, where I'd rather be instead of sitting in, in this story. So you know, there are, and there are also, one of the things that works really well, when you are trying to create change in relationships are mantras. I know some of that's overdone, but sometimes, I tape things to my mirror in my room. So like one of the things I have on, on a, on a sticky note in my mirror is, Be the love that you want to attract. And so that is, I look at that every day. And so I think, okay, if I want to attract somebody that's always talking about their past, blah, blah, blah, blah, like be that, right? I don't want to be that. I don't want to attract that in somebody else. So for you to attract what you desire next, you have to become it yourself. You will magnetize to you. You don't attract what you want. You attract what you are. And so if you want love that is healthy, that is working on healing, maybe we're not ever all completely healed. We're always growing and evolving, but if you want that, be that, if you want the love that takes responsibility for itself and you want the love that is, is open and conscious and compassionate. Find ways to be that. Find ways to be in places of compassion for self and others instead of always being in the blame. Because that energy of blame, by the way, I'm going to drop this in here. There's a chart of consciousness. Michael Dawkins wrote that book, Power Versus Force. It's, it's 30 years of research on the bio, feedback of the body. And they noticed that the lowest form of consciousness is shame and blame. And, um, when you are, it's a 10 on the scale. Okay. High consciousness, love and peace are two to 300. Okay. So shame is a 10, the way the body holds it. So when you're sitting in that old story and you're shaming other people, you're actually resonating at that same vibration. And so you're going to be attracting what matches that. If you want to attract love and peace and compassion, and you want to attract that one, two, three, 400 man or person, partner, whoever you want to attract, And so that's going to be a conscious, again, the word conscious, it's like putting up like, it's like I would envision it like changing the tracks, like when a train comes up and they put those little things that change the tracks and they go to the right instead of the left. That's what you're literally, I would picture that in my mind and I work with clients. How can we change the track that you're about to go on? And so a lot of it is, those intentions. But, It's a matter of also getting in the way of those automatic thoughts. So this is work that you can do in therapy and counseling. Like, what am I automatically thinking? Again, how can I change the track? How can I replace that thought with something new? And that's deeper work. But the cool thing is once you're conscious of it and you practice it, it starts becoming natural and you start to realize, wow, I was so engaged in these activities that I was literally recreating this in my life. And the beautiful part of that is you're empowered. You can literally create and attract whatever you want next, but you have to become, not you have to, you get to become that first. And I will tell you, you'll be the sexiest, hottest person on the market. Your pool will get smaller, but it'll be, it'll become such higher quality.

Hoyt: 46:54

So now we've gotten to the point where we recognize the value of that. We've stated an intention. We've learned how to disconnect some of those behaviors that had been automatic and question them in ourselves. But there's a journey then that comes back to you've got to tell that story, you've got to go into that pain in order to come out the other side. And that's a much larger topic than we have time for today. But I'd love for you to walk through what that journey looks like for many of the people that you work with.

Karin: 47:26

right? So if there is trauma and if there is deep pain within you, so it's energy, right? those are emotions and energy in your body, emotions in your body or energy in your body and energy's natural state is movement. Energy is not meant to sit still. So it is our choice. I see it as our responsibility to move that energy through our body. So now I work much more with energetics. my PhD is in very deep psychology and I've studied all of the different, modalities and there's beauty to all of them, but what I really want to impress on you guys is that if that energy, that emotion is still stuck, it wants to be validated. That's why that is so important. recent research has shown that if you, And I'm talking about deep trauma, but if an old emotion comes up, if you would just sit in that old emotion for 90 seconds, literally, it's called, there's that book, the 90 second rule that just came out. It's if you would just validate it, when you're triggered, this is work that I do. I just did this yesterday with myself when I had a really bad day and I sat and I had a really good cry and I just started speaking. I am angry. I am scared. I am so effing mad. I'm so like, I just started, I feel abandoned. I feel isolated. Like I just, all of that, Old stuff, right? And I moved it and I cried and see, I know how to do it now on my own because I have worked with experts, but that is what's so beautiful about getting counseling or coaching. Again, you don't have to stay with it forever. If you could just tell the story, that energy wants, To move those tears that you cry over old emotion. It's different than the tears that lubricate your eyes. They actually have like pain killing, components to them. They are there for a reason. Move the energy. But, the next step is after you've moved that energy in. Beautiful work that you do with yourself with it with an expert. You don't have to stay in it the piece that I've learned so strongly as we've raised our consciousness is that? Pain is inevitable, but suffering is a choice You're not made to stay in suffering just because things happen to you when you were little or your ex abandoned you and had another Family with somebody else horrible story You are not meant to stay in that suffering You have so much power over your life You can choose to do that But that is on you. You can also choose then to do that work, move that energy, express it, give it voice, give it words, write it out, journal it out, move it, move it. That's my whole thing. Like I have letters on my computer. I have a letter to each one of my ex that I've never sent. I'm never intending on sending, but when I was in that first six months and I was so effing mad and things would come up and I was triggered and I was in that like purge, I got to talk about it. I went to my computer and I just, cause I'm a writer, I sat and wrote. I didn't hold back. I wrote everything. Everything I needed to say. If it was two in the morning, two in the afternoon, I would, I, pages, it helped to heal me. I would go with the bat on the bed and bang it, right? Like move the energy, go for a run, punch the pillow, move it, because there will come a time when your body says, okay, we moved it. Not that you're not going to get triggered, but you don't have to stay there. You get to move on and then become the loving person that you want to love, that has been responsible for her or his emotions. you've managed it in your own self. You've gone to the experts and loved yourself enough to recognize it, validate it, and then create an opening by clearing it. Because when you're clearing that old grief and anger, You're making way for new love to come in, but it can't come in until you cleared it, but it will come in when you do. And then, then like a limitless future.

Hoyt: 50:51

so it's like taking out the trash, let the truck come by and take it away, right?

Karin: 50:55

See, I love that you use that metaphor. I would literally envision like an old story in my mind. I would see it being put in a trash bag. I would envision a truck taking it away. And then Anytime I would try to retrieve that old paint, I would say to myself, I can't. It is in a landfill and it's buried and it's been burned. And I literally would say to myself, you can't get it. And I would just like pop myself and move forward. I mean, things like that. That everyone has little things that work for them, but yeah, and then you get to move forward, but you can't until you've cleared it. And it doesn't have to take forever. Have I said that yet?

Hoyt: 51:27

that's perfect. so now you've done the work, you've gotten that out there. Let's talk about what that process, the result of that process, does and could mean for your life, as contrasted with where you might be today.

Karin: 51:42

Oh my gosh, you get to create a life where you get to feel something you haven't felt before. You get to create a life that is what you really want. And even if you've revisited old patterns, like I know like no judgment on you. You've done it because you haven't known how to heal yourself. You've done it because you were not given the tools. So Having so much compassion with yourself, but now if you're listening to this, you have the tools. So you have a responsibility and you're here for a reason now to tend to yourself. Because once you take that responsibility, you can create a life and a love and a partnership. But The first piece is you have to find that with yourself. You have to, and it doesn't have to take a decade. It can take a few months, but. I found that. So in this latest version of my singlehood, like that has become so clear to me than ever before. I'm like, I am so in love with myself that honestly, like having a partner, although I would love it, like it's, I'm okay. I love myself and accept myself so much. And this is where I'm always trying to get my clients to. Once you find that in yourself, you're going to find a partner that then honors that in you. And they honor that in themselves. Yes, your dating pool is going to be smaller. Thank goodness, because you're not going to be willing, like now when I'm swiping, even though like I'll see a guy that I'm like, Oh God, he is so hot, right? Like, I'm like, God. And 10 years ago, I would have been all about that right swipe, but now I look at it and I'm like, all right. And I can tell, I can feel the energy now. Cause I know how to do that. And in his answers, I'm like, This dude has done no work. Like, this dude is so not actualized. I can tell there was a shallowness to it. As much as my physical body would love to go and like, play with that guy physically, and I'm just being real, I know now. no, because I want someone that is in this higher version of consciousness of themselves. So, I date now with so much more intention. It means I have less dates, but it's okay. Like, I don't want to go through repeating, trying to fix somebody. And so the cool thing is when you ask about potential. I know now that when someone shows up and I have these guardrails, these parameters around what I will allow in my life, it's going to be so much sweeter and I'm willing to wait. I'm good. And I know that there's going to be such a beautiful, like I can feel it. I can feel it. So now I like do all this beautiful energy work around, like calling him in and I can kind of already see him and feel him. Like you get to do all this. if you're into the woo, reach out to me. Cause I love doing that. Like I'll meditate and just like see him and feel him. What it's about now is, is I feel like so much love within myself that like that sticker on my mirror, I get to emanate with the love that I want to attract. So even if he's not here, I already feel it. That is the sweet spot. So in doing that work, You're not going to walk around feeling that pain anymore. You're not going to walk around feeling that emptiness that you think somebody else needs to fill. That's the kicker. Because the more you're trying to get someone else to fill that spot and heal you, it's never going to work because they're coming into you half a person. You're trying to be half a person and complete each other. No. Like the more you can complete yourself and the more you can continue to grow and act with intention and share with intention, the more you are filling that gap. yourself and you will attract a person then that it's also done that same work. So the answer is you get to create a relationship that is such a beautiful match to you and you're not going to be in such haste to do it because you feel so full in yourself that you're sitting in so much joy. That you're good. Honestly, I can say it because that's where I am. And that's the kind of life that you really want to live, whether somebody's in it or not. And then that person comes. Yeah.

Hoyt: 55:11

that's beautifully said, Dr. Karin. I really appreciate that. And it seems like if you reduce the space that all of that garbage has been taking up for you, you're creating space, whether it's in a relationship or in other things, for new and kind of magical things to come into your life that you were unintentionally blocking out from yourself,

Karin: 55:31

A hundred percent. of course, I think it's the energetics of, I love it. You said the word magic. Cause it actually is I can't tell you the number of people. That when they finally start doing things differently, and that's the key. Like just go that the class that you've wanted to take, like joining a, a new group, going and sitting, by yourself at the coffee shop, even though it's like, Oh, there's a vulnerability. It's like putting yourself in environments that, that feel magical to you. if you want to attract someone and I know you cover this in a lot of your podcasts, but like. That, that's a match to you. Don't pretend to be somebody that you're not. Like go show up at the places that you love and you may make new friends, you may meet your next person, but you literally are opening up magical portals of attraction for your life. And then the potential for something new is, it is a energetic law of the universe that you will create something new because you have become a new person yourself. And that's where the magic unfolds. A hundred percent.

Hoyt: 56:25

Dr. Karin, I really appreciate your coming on the show today. This was enlightening, it was encouraging, even though, nobody wants to go into pain, right? Nobody wants to walk intentionally into fire, but sometimes you got to do that, especially when you know what's on the other side and you've articulated it beautifully and I really appreciate your being here with us today.

Karin: 56:47

Thank you. I've enjoyed it so much. I know I want everyone to find so much peace and love, but I will tell you one thing I'm gonna leave you with. If you want to know where you are energetically, the last relationship you've attracted will be a sign. So take responsibility for where you are and know that the relationships that show up as you do your work will be evidence. And I promise you they will demonstrate the work right back to you because they will have the same amount of light that you're carrying now that you've changed things up. But thank you so much for having me on. It was a great conversation.

Hoyt: 57:15

way, what a perfect way to leave this. Now, before we go, remind people once again where they can find you online.

Karin: 57:20

Yeah. Just look up Dr. Karin. I'm at drkarin. com. You got to spell it out. Karin with a K A R I N. And I would love for you to take my cell inventory quiz, cellinventory. com. And, uh, if you find me on the podcast and you want to reach out to me, just shoot me a DM and I'd love to connect. Thank you so much for having me on. It was such a great conversation. I love it.

Hoyt: 57:37

I can't wait to do the next one. There's just so much for us to get into.

Karin: 57:41

Agreed.

Hoyt: 57:42

Thanks again, Dr. Karin.

Karin: 57:43

Thank you.

Hoyt: 57:46

As we close today's episode. I want to reflect On the insight shared by Dr. Karin Luise. We delved into the intricate process of healing from past relationships. A journey that while challenging can be incredibly rewarding. Firstly Dr. Karin underscored the vital importance of acknowledging our pain and taking responsibility for our own healing. It's a powerful reminder that while the hurt from past relationships is real. The control over our healing journey lies within us. We must choose to confront our pain. Learn from it. And use it as a stepping stone toward growth. Secondly, the concept of emotions as energy that needs to be moved was particularly striking. Dr. Karin encouraged us to express and validate these emotions to move this energy through rather than letting it stagnate. Whether it's through writing physical activity or speaking out loud. Finding a way to release these emotions is a crucial step in the healing process. The third point that resonated deeply was the idea that we attract, not what we want. But who we are. This notion invites us to raise our own consciousness. And embody the love and qualities we seek in others. It's a call to action for self love and acceptance to become a magnet for the kind of relationships we desire. And lastly, Dr. Karin spoke about creating space for new beginnings. By clearing out old, emotional wounds. It's a poignant reminder that letting go of the past. Isn't just about moving on from old relationships. It's about making room for new experiences for love that aligns with our highest selves. As we wrap up, I hope you'll take these insights to heart. The journey of healing and growth is a personal one. But remember. You're not alone. We're all navigating these waters together, learning, growing. And moving towards brighter, more fulfilling relationships. Thank you for joining us on this journey today. We'll be back next week with an exciting episode on the neurochemistry of love and attraction with author and love biologist. Dawn Mosler. Until next time. Swipe fearlessly.