Hoyt 0:40

What's your type. So often when we talk about type. It's really just shorthand for any of the thousand reasons we might reject a potential romantic partner. He, or she's just not my type. So easy, so final. So slacker, shortcut. But I get it. You don't want to have to explain in detail why you're just not interested in meeting your friend. Jenny's coworker. Kevin. The recently divorced software engineer, father of three. That's carrying a few extra pounds, but he's really nice. But I'm not talking about that. Type. I'm not even talking about how you might answer the question about what type of guy or girl you might want to meet. You know, your ideal, tall, dark handsome. Or blond Kirby, vivacious and you know, up for anything. No, I'm talking about your type. Your Enneagram type. Now, if you're not familiar with the Enneagram personality test. You'll be forgiven for thinking that this is probably some new age. Woo panacea, promising instant enlightenment. It's not, and it doesn't. The promise is simply this. The better you understand yourself? The better you will be at understanding potential romantic partners whose personality types might be very different from your own. And that that understanding can lead to smarter and more compassionate choices when it comes to which prospective partners to invest in. And which to relegate to the dustbin So. Before we go any further. If you haven't taken or don't remember your Enneagram type. And what that means. I'm giving you full permission to pause this podcast right now. And take a few minutes to find out. I promise you won't miss anything. There's a free short version of the Enneagram personality test@truity.com. That's T R U I T y.com. But the real definitive test. Can be found@anygrahaminstitute.com and Enneagram is spelled E N N E a G R a M Institute. Dot com. Now this one will cost you a whopping $12. It has 144 questions. And it will take about 40 minutes to complete. But every expert I talked to says, this is by far the most comprehensive Enneagram test. All right. So you either now know what your Enneagram personality type is, or you're not really sure that you care fair enough. I as may not come as a surprise to many of you. Em, an Enneagram type seven with an eight wing. But more on that later. I am. The opportunist. Which kind of sounds like someone, your father. I might've warned you against in high school and maybe with good reason. More generally. Sevens are known as the enthusiast. And I actually liked that term better. We tend to be. Extroverted. Optimistic. Versatile and spontaneous. Playful, highly spirited and yet practical. People oriented and truly enjoying new relationships. Fun-loving entertaining. And like to spend every defeat into a success. It sounds perfect. Right? Well, that's the plus side. Here's the dark side. Sevens. Can get into Conspicuous consumption and all forms of excess. Self-centered materialistic and greedy. Never feeling that they have enough. Demanding and pushy yet unsatisfied and jaded. Addictive hardened and insensitive. R R I R I right. Enough of that. I don't want to hear anymore. Where's the party. Oh, so us sevens are the most underrepresented cohort among the nine Enneagram types. At only 9% of the population. It has said that sevens commonly pair well with nines, the peacemaker. I didn't get that memo and paired with another seven. Which is either going to be spectacular in its success. Or spectacular in its cataclysmic demise. Lucky for me, it's proven to be the former. So. What are we to make of all this personality type mumbo-jumbo. Fortunately. We don't have to rely on my Google and chat GPT informed expertise on the subject. Joining me today. Is Emily Wingfield. Emily teaches the Enneagram to individuals and groups throughout the United States. Since learning the virtues, vices and words that describe her motivations and behaviors as an Enneagram nine. Emily has been able to make dramatic changes to her life and is passionate about guiding others in the transformation as well. Emily's teaching style is rich with personal stories and anecdotes about how any grand patterns show up in everyday experiences. Emily lives in Atlanta with her husband, Kyle. And there are two sweet and rambunctious boys, Charlie 13 and Owen 10 and their dog cookie. Emily, welcome to Behind the Swipe.

Emily 6:40

Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

Hoyt 6:43

I am so excited about getting into this topic because at the end of the day, it feels like understanding who you are makes you a much better human being in relation to other people, and particularly I. That's relevant, I think, for people who are online dating or organically dating in the real world, having a good, understanding of themselves So I really wanna know a lot more about, about the Enneagram, but first of all, tell me what you do with that and how you discover the Enneagram in the first place.

Emily 7:16

Yes. I've always loved personalities. I Myers Briggs, disc, um, love languages. Any, anything that helps me to better understand myself and better understand others. I'm all in for it. But, When I first heard about the Enneagram through a podcast probably eight years ago, that is when I thought, this is fascinating. And it, it made so much sense. I could immediately start to hear the descriptions and say, oh, that kind of reminds me of myself or my sister or my mom. And, once I got into it, I just couldn't stop. Which often happens for people of you either. Say, Enneagram, what? I don't know. Or you get those people that are kind of like you and I all in like, oh, this because it's so, freeing almost to say, oh, this is how I move through the world. And these are eight other ways people move through the world. And the tagline for my business is that learning the Enneagram will increase your compassion. Decrease your frustration and improve your relationships, and I think that's why people like it so much is because that's what it does for them.

Hoyt 8:21

So you in your professional role here are both a teacher and a coach. So you work with individuals to help better understand themselves in the context of. The Enneagram and then you dig in further with them to help them support the objectives and the goals that, that they want. Is that correct?

Emily 8:43

Yes. I call it the h o v lane of self-discovery. So the high occupancy vehicle lane of, you're not stuck in traffic trying to figure out about, you know, why do I do this? Why do I do this? the Enneagram gives you just this. Instruction manual almost of, oh, this is why I do this. So the first five sessions, when I'm teaching somebody about their Enneagram type, I'm teaching them all aspects of how they move through the world and why they move through the world. Because once you can understand why you're doing something, it frees you up to realize that you have a choice of, you could either continue to do it because of that motivation, or you could try to push against that. When you're in the mood to try to grow a different way. So I teach individuals about their Enneagram type and then we move into coaching with it to say, okay, now that I understand about myself, how can I work to, loosen the grip my personality has on me and move towards a better life?

Hoyt 9:40

So where did the Enneagram come from? I mean, is this like some, ancient Chinese wisdom from 2000 years ago? Or, or how did this come

Emily 9:49

Well, you actually are almost there. Yes, it is. Ancient wisdom. Over 2000 years old. Um, they don't exactly know, but it started through the Middle East and through the desert Mothers and fathers. There's a, a longer, much longer history, but for our purposes it's an ancient tool. Um, really trying to help you understand how you are not living your life that. The divine. Hoped for your life to be. This does not have to be any religion. It's, but it started out as a spiritual tool to say you were made for so much more and because your personality is holding you back, you're not living that life that you were made for.

Hoyt 10:33

So you feel like the interest in the Enneagram is only increasing right now?

Emily 10:39

I. Well, I'm gonna get a little woowoo here, but I truly feel like we all can agree that our world is very divided right now, and I don't think any of us like it this way. So I think those that are ready to say I, I do not like how divided things are. Hey, wait, how can I help heal the world a little bit? And one way is to start becoming healthier and knowing about yourself and knowing why you do certain things. So I, I think part of the reason the Enneagram has become so popular is because it gives people more compassion for others. And one of the most common things I hear from my clients is I'm just not so annoyed by everybody anymore. Like, I just get that even if I don't understand what they're thinking, I understand that it's not the way I'm thinking. Whereas I used to just think they were stupid or lazy or, you know, ignorant.

Hoyt 11:31

let's put a bunch of people on a bus to Washington and get that fixed

Emily 11:35

I know. I'm telling you man, if that's the beautiful thing about the Enneagram is like within this world, people are just, within the Enneagram world, people are really tolerant and accepting and kind and understanding. And because we all realize we're just coming at things from different motivational points. And if we can. Be self-aware to say, Hey, I was sorry I've had a long day, and I'm feeling like my piece is getting messed with, so I'm a little edgy, but that's not an excuse, but I am already able to tell you what's going on with me, rather than you just having to try to figure it out.

Hoyt 12:15

So let's talk about these types. So the Enneagram roughly divides, all of us into one of nine. Personality types. And, and then I want to ask you about the wing thing after that. But, put that into context. So tell me about the various types and maybe start with like, so I had talked in the opener about, uh, the number sevens being sort of the least well represented just from a population standpoint. Is there, is there one of the Enneagram types that seems to be more dominant, more common?

Emily 12:50

there are a few different schools of thoughts. I did hear that about the sevens being the least represented, that the, the challenge of actually knowing who's the most represented or least represented is that, Because we don't get to just do a blood sample test or a D N A test or something to actually know your type. people can mistype, they can. so those types of statistics aren't exactly valid because you could think you were a five for a long time and then realize, oh no, I'm a seven. we kind of hold on loosely to that. So it does feel like there are a lot of Enneagram sixes in the world, which are the loyal questioners. how about I just go around the circle? Okay. Because I know, uh, for people that are not familiar with it, we're, it sounds like we're speaking gibberish with all these numbers. so the idea is that there are nine different ways to see the world, and it's based on our motivations. And so each type has kind of a few words that we use to describe them, but it doesn't have to be these exact words. We're going for the feeling of that. So for Enneagram ones, they're often called the reformers or the improvers. They see how things could be better and they, and they, what they're striving for is to. To make things good or perfect or higher, or always improving on things, but that means they're very hard on themselves and there could be hard on others because they're always seeing how things could be better. They have very high moral standards and um, they just want the world to be a good place. Enneagram twos are often called the helpers or the befrienders, and they are really looking for. Love, friendship, connection. And so they're often very giving because they're looking for that in return. So there's, these are very warm, loving, outgoing people. but kind of the downside is they do have a pride that they know what is best, which is why they're such great helpers. 'cause they're always willing to help. 'cause they're like, I know what you should do. I know how to help you. so the pride can get in the way a little bit and sometimes they can. Overly insert themselves into other people's lives that when it may or may not be actually necessary. Enneagram threes are often called, the achievers or the focused on success. They, want to feel worthwhile. Um, Valuable, necessary. They strive to be the best. And this, this is not as much like an Enneagram one from kind of the moral goodness. Not saying they're not moral, but they're looking for more external success. They want the awards or the title or they want other people to see that they are a success, which is. A wonderful quality. That's what helps improve so many things. When you get an Enneagram three leading a group, they can get a lot of things done. The challenge for them is that, they often take on roles that are big. They can be a bit of chameleon, and so, uh, they adapt to the different roles, which is very helpful to make things successful. But it leaves them, or perhaps people that know them, wondering who is the real. Person behind this because I notice you adapting and I don't feel like I really know the true you. Enneagram fours are often called, the romantics, the artist, they have deep feelings. They want to experience the depth of life of whether it's. The highs or lows of emotion, they just see how beautiful and rich life can be and they want to experience that. So they're, and they often see the holes in things like what is missing, which is why artists can give us such beauty is because they see the beauty in things and how to capture it and what is missing. How can we add beauty to the world? The challenge for this is they often have, um, A wide variety of emotions, often just even within a short period of time, and it can be a bit exhausting for other people in their lives of what could feel like to other people. The emotional rollercoaster to an Enneagram four, they're just experiencing the highs and lows of life. Enneagram fives are called, the observers or the investigators. They want to become a master of information about whatever they're interested in. So, they're very private people and, they love learning and especially learning about whatever they're interested in. So, um, but the privacy can be a little challenging because they can be friendly and within groups, but there is a lot there holding back and they kind of tell things only on a need to know basis. But that means that other people in their lives or in relationship with them can often feel in the dark of, how did I never know that about you? Well, there was never a reason they felt to share it, and so they just withhold a lot of things. Enneagram sixes are called, the loyal questioner. Uh, these types are so loyal to. Whatever groups they are a part of, or family or friends. but they're also very doubtful. they ask a lot of questions and they're internally questioning a lot because they don't trust themselves. And so they are looking to an external authority to find trust or guidance or direction. they're just, they're very good at. Poking holes in things, or maybe being devil's advocates, but it's to keep people safe and secure. That's what they're looking for is safety and security. And They have a little bit of doubt or distrust all the time until they really, really feel safe and secure with something. Um, but their loyalty, they can often be the glue within communities because they are good volunteers. They, can be dependable. dutiful is a very big duty is a very big word to them being, you know, taking you what you've committed to seriously. Enneagram sevens are often called the adventurers, and as you already said this perfectly, but they're very fun. They bring a lot of fun to the world. But that can, it's hard 'cause part of life is sometimes the drudgery as well. And sevens do not always want to have to stick through with all the details of the drudgery. Uh, and they can be a bit gluttonous. Enneagram eights are called, the assert. Sometimes the boss or the leader, they, um, They want to make an impact on life and their biggest fear is to be controlled or to be caught being vulnerable. So they put on a very strong exterior because they do not want anyone to see any of their vulnerabilities. I. This can make for a great leader or a great person that gets things done, but they can, because they're so hard on themselves, they can be hard on other people as well. And because you don't get to see their vulnerabilities or weakness because they might even deny it to themselves, um, they don't always have quite as much grace for other people to have other opinions or, what they perceive as weaknesses that might not actually bother the other person. And then finally, the Enneagram nines. These are the peacemakers, the mediators. They just want their peace. They don't want to be bothered by life, which means they're very easygoing. They usually just always go with the flow, whatever works, because they never wanna break any connection with other people. However, then they, pin up their resentment and frustration and it comes out in passive aggressive ways. Perhaps little, maybe a little angry burst, but really, um, passive aggressive ways. And funny enough, the people in their lives are like, we want to know more of you. We love that you're laid back, but. We understand that you have an opinion and we'd love to hear you share versus just saying, whatever, I don't care. Whatever. That's fine with me. I'll go with whatever. So that was a little loop around all the Enneagram types.

Hoyt 20:56

So, and you are an Enneagram nine,

Emily 21:00

I, I am, and this kind of shows the, the growth that you can have within the Enneagram is when I first learned the Enneagram, I mean, I was so fearful of conflict. I, I hated conflict. I never stood up for myself. I didn't quite even realize that I had so much anger pent up inside of me. But as I became more aware of these things and then put myself in situations that pushed against these exact things, I started to realize, you know, anger's not quite such a bad thing. And hey, people like it when I share my opinion. And I actually do have some preferences that I never even realized I had. And so now I can much more fluidly, um, be easygoing. Or when I need to write a tough email, I can write the tough email or have the hard phone call. So that's the beauty of the Enneagram, is learning how you have been moving through the world, but then that you are not stuck there and that you actually have a lot more choices in life than you realize.

Hoyt 21:58

So Emily, this is not d n a, right? So there's no test that you can get a pin prick and then send it away, and Ancestry tells you, oh, you're a number seven. Right? That's, that doesn't exist. But it's kind of a blunt object when it comes to, putting you into one of these categories almost to the exclusion of other characteristics and, and traits. So I wanna understand this whole concept of, yes, I'm a seven with an eight wing. Um, but, but what I really wanna understand is how common is it that. I might, clearly feel like I'm a five, for example, but I see these characteristics that are in an eight that show up for me, so can you help me

Emily 22:45

Yeah, definitely. Well, and that's kind of the, um, both and of the Enneagram of you, you truly are one Enneagram type that that's your dominant motivation. We call it almost your home base when you roll out of bed and you haven't had coffee or anything. That is what is driving you the, you know, in, at the beginning of your day, however, You have all nine types within you. It's just basically you have, you almost think of you're on a bus and there's a driver on that bus, but if the driver, you know, is something's going on, maybe somebody can kind of reach over and help steer the steering wheel every so often. It's kind of that analogy of you have this dominant Enneagram type and that's what you're trying to figure out, but you do have all the other types within you, so, which is why. You know, as I just mentioned, all the different types. I bet a few different tho of those types resonated with different people because we are beautiful, unique human beings with a wide range of personality traits and, um, things that, you know, we do and make us happy. So, You really are one type. However, you have all the types within you, and that's what you might see bubbling up sometimes. And when you really notice two types or like, well, I can't figure out between these two, you do go to different types when you're feeling more stressed or more secure. So that's something that can play into it. Um, there is another thing called wings that you've alluded to, which, is your wing is where your, Behavior supports the motivation of your dominant type on. For people that are newer to this, I would say this is all, like, I kind of call it two oh two level, you know, if you think of college classes. So, the goal is to learn about the Enneagram types and try to figure out what your dominant type is. And then once you've gotten there, you can do the deeper work of understanding why some of the other types show up for you.

Hoyt 24:50

So that makes perfect sense. So let me ask you, because I, it feels like for me that I evolved into the Enneagram type that I am now, that I've not, my sense is that I wasn't always a seven. Somewhere in midlife. I made a shift, and I don't know what from, because I didn't take the Enneagram before, but is that, is that common? Do people shape shift in this Enneagram world?

Emily 25:23

it is common that people will say, well, but when I go to work, I show up as, or I, I look like this, and when I'm at home I look like this. I always say, you know, I bet if you and I could spend an hour or two together, Really digging into this and I asked about childhood stuff or asked about I, it sounds like you've been married before. Okay. Different things like that, because I'm able to hear nuances that you might not even realize when you're speaking. I bet I would pick up on nuances of, okay, so that actually was some seven ness of you. let's say you, Had a rough childhood and you always ran into books. Well, could you look at it as, not that you're the five investigating, but you were actually finding your escape and you were almost gluttonous about books because you just wanted to escape the world and escape negative emotions, and so you, you found an outlet. I'll pause I, this, this might be too, too deep for a podcast. What I'm trying to say is, if we took, at least two hours to really sit through and talk about it, I bet I could figure out what has been going on. Because what the idea is that you have had this common thread throughout your life, and it might not always show up as the gluttony of a seven, but it, I could figure it out if we work together is, I guess what I'm trying to say. people do sometimes say, well, I feel like I've been different. But then when we work together, we can usually find what that common thread is.

Hoyt 26:55

so it's entirely possible that, that seven ness has always been there, but it might have been suppressed in, in, in

Emily 27:03

Exactly, or if you were really stressed, you might have been, um, looking for seven. They go more towards one. So you might have been looking like a one a lot, but it, it was through some, um, seven as well.

Hoyt 27:18

Emily, that's a lot of information. And I know that anybody that's like curious about this that doesn't really know is going to wanna say, okay, well where do I find out more? So what kind of online resources are there where somebody can start to understand this? I've already pointed people to, you know, the Enneagram Institute test and the Truity test out there. But beyond that, just sort of understanding the, the concepts of the different personality types. What's a good resource that I point people

Emily 27:49

Enneagram Overview podcasts are really helpful and when people feel like they're starting to narrow down their type, There's a podcast called The Art of Growth that does panels, and so if you say, I kind of feel like I might be a three, but I'm not sure, listen to a podcast that has. Four people on it that are all Enneagram threes and start to hear, oh yeah, the, uh, a lot of what they're sharing is how I see the world, or, gosh, none of that resonated with me. Maybe I need to look into a different type. But those resources you already gave are great starting points, and people will probably start going down the rabbit hole of, you know, once you get into it, then you start following a hashtag on social media and then you start seeing more and more and more.

Hoyt 28:34

So Emily, we're gonna take a little break here, but when we come back, I want to explore with you how these various Enneagram personality types inform your relationships with other people, particularly in early romantic relationships. So we're gonna take a short break and then we'll be back with the second half of the show. So welcome back to Behind The Swipe. I'm here today with Emily Wingfield. Emily is a teacher and a coach that focuses on the power of knowing your Enneagram and using that to inform decisions. invest, compassion into your world and just overall growth. So welcome back, Emily.

Emily 30:04

so much for having me.

Hoyt 30:06

So we talked in the first half of the program about the Enneagram and the individual implications for the Enneagram, but it seems to me that. This has tremendous applicability to how you relate to other people in the world, and particularly in romantic relationships. I want to play for you a clip of an interview that I had, just a few days ago. You may remember Rachel, our data from episode nine. Rachel mentioned that she was a big believer in the Enneagram. And had learned a lot about herself as a type four. I had asked her whether her awareness of her own tendencies as revealed by the Enneagram. And her awareness of the styles among the other eight enneagram types have been helpful in her dating life And here's what she said

Rachel 31:01

Yes, I, you know, not everyone's familiar with the Enneagram, so they may not know their number. And once you get to know the, the different numbers, if you truly study it, you know, sometimes you can pick out. Who you think someone is, although I guess that could be dangerous as well. Um, but it, it really does. I recently started dating someone, and he's an Enneagram five, and they are known as the investigator. And within the first few weeks we were dating, he probably asked me 200 questions every time I saw him. And I remember telling a friend like, wow, like he's. Asking all these questions, which is fine. I mean, you're getting to know one another, but it seems really extreme. And then when he told me he was a five, I was like, oh, that makes so much sense because he is all about information gathering and asking questions and being truly interested in, in knowing you at depth. If I hadn't known that, I would've thought he was worried that. I was trying to scam him or, there was something about me that was, coming off as dishonest or

Hoyt 32:14

Yeah, because if you hadn't known, you would've felt like you were getting the third degree.

Rachel 32:19

Yes, yes. And since then, he's continued to ask questions and I, I had to like, lay down the law and say, okay, I don't a ask or I don't answer questions after eight 30 because I can't talk in depth about anything, any, any longer for the day.

Hoyt 32:34

So Emily, that seems like the perfect encapsulation. Of just the understanding uh, so in, in many religions and in in Buddhism, it's all about cultivating a non-reactive stance, right? And so she actually did that with the help of understanding that his motivations are driven. Very differently from hers. So how do you coach people around these early stage relationships and starting to understand their potential partner, through the lens of the Enneagram?

Emily 33:11

Yes, it's so, I love that example because it is that exact thing that, something that might. Be offensive or you might experience as offensive. Once you understand the motivations behind it, you realize, oh, that's just how they're wired. And he just asks a lot of questions. so that's what's so helpful is once you understand yourself and once you understand others, you know, in this instance you could say, oh, he is just a really inquisitive person. And, uh, you know, he sees. Uh, the analogy I use for five sixes and sevens is they see the pixels of everything. So, if you had, um, a picture and then you blew it up, fives see the pixels of all the possible information they can learn, which is why when she said one thing, he saw the pixels within it of, oh, I could ask her about this and this and this and this. but once you understand that, you can immediately feel your. Tension or frustration or just confusion drop because you're like, oh, now I understand why you're doing that. Oh, okay. I, I don't mind answering questions. It's kind of nice to be asked a lot of questions about myself. so I think that's why it's so helpful, especially in a dating world because, I do think people might be quick to cut off other people, you know, along the lines of swiping of, oh no, I don't like the way they look. I don't like the team they've cheered for. I don't like that they wrote this, but once you can better understand their Enneagram type, you can say, oh, that makes a lot more sense why they're doing what they're doing.

Hoyt 34:41

so with the Enneagram types, are there Any pairings in there that seem to make sense? and conversely, other pairings that say that could be problematic. I mean, how do you contextualize something like that?

Emily 34:56

Oh, I know, and everybody would love to know the exact pairings. it really all comes back to how emotionally healthy and self-aware you are, because that's the goal. Any pairing is fine together. If both people are emotionally aware or mature adults not acting childlike, they can talk through things. but any two pairings that are, they're not emotionally aware or they are a victim role or they blame everything on the other person and they don't take responsibility for their own actions or their own part in things, they're not gonna look great. But, Enneagram nines are the easiest to get along with all other types. That's actually because we merge with others. So what, whoever is the more dominant

Hoyt 35:41

Yeah, so they're, they're kind of, they're kind of the of.

Emily 35:47

And so Enneagram nines do go get along really well with most other types. But it's funny because, just because some people look like they might get along in a long-term relationship, things are gonna surface. So even if you have just a sweet, sweet, so I'll use myself as an example. My husband is an Enneagram three, and I'm an Enneagram nine. Neither of us like conflict. So we look like we get, and we do get along very well. We've been together 20 years, but a lot of things that might cause other people conflict, he and I are just gonna ignore it 'cause we don't want to have that conflict. So now 20 years in, things are surfacing that. We're like, we need to deal with this and. We used to not, we used to ignore it. But now as we've both gotten healthier, we both say, Hey, this is a problem. It's not a conflict, it's just something we need to talk through. Let's actually talk through it versus sweep it under the rug. So, um, just because people don't always have conflict might not always mean that they're dealing with all the issues that are in the relationship.

Hoyt 36:49

Yeah. You know, Emily, I was kind of hoping that you would enlighten me with some kind of a cheat code that Daters online can use just to say, okay, I could read this paragraph. I can look at this six pictures, and I know that that's not compatible or that is compatible, but apparently that's not available.

Emily 37:07

I wish we could. Oh my goodness. Can you imagine all the money I could make with a dating app if we could do that? But the good news is we are such unique. Being that we can't just be put into a box like that. You know, it's, and that's part of the fun of dating is getting to discover, oh, why do you do what you do? Or, oh, I, you know, different things like that.

Hoyt 37:28

so I've seen on dating profiles, and I wanna say that when I was online dating, I probably put my Myers-Briggs in into that, right? Just as a. Just as a full disclosure, right. Well, first of all, it's, it's actually kind of cool that, you know, if you can start to engage with somebody and they know what that is, then they can know something about you. But I don't see as many, Enneagram declarations out there. Can you just help me understand a little bit of the difference between what the Myers-Briggs tries to do and what the Enneagram tries to do?

Emily 38:03

Uh, well, I, I love all personality tools. I think anyone that is working to better know themselves and then share that information with others of, Hey, this is how I operate. I think that is just such, so great to give other people kind of a user manual with this. Um, however, most other personality tests really just focus on your behaviors. You're introverted, you're extroverted, you're perceiving, judging, kind of thing. The beauty of the Enneagram is it shows you your motivation. So kind of those deeper level things, and then it gives you tools and a path to break free of those if you so desire. So, I do wonder if some people that don't know the Enneagram well might say, oh, Enneagram twos, I don't like them at all. I'm, I don't wanna date somebody because they're an Enneagram two. Honestly, I might say, well, you dodged a bullet then because anyone that's gonna judge just based on that, there's, give everybody a chance. But it is helpful to already know that information about them.

Hoyt 39:05

And so how do you approach, and you've probably counseled people, that are in relationships that begin to discover more about themselves through the Enneagram and want their partner to commit to. Doing the, the test, and sometimes there's some resistance there. Or sometimes it's like, oh, this is some like woo woo, new age kind of thing. how do you counsel people that want their partners and potential partners, how do you encourage them to take the test and learn?

Emily 39:38

Oh, that happens all the time. it's very rare that both people are into the Enneagram at the same time. Usually there's always one partner that is into it. First, I. And I always tell them, keep the focus on yourself. Just work on yourself because you have, 50 plus years of life within you. You've got plenty of material to work on yourself versus just focusing on the other person. And what's so interesting is, When you start focusing on yourself, first of all, you become a little more humble. 'cause you're like, oh, I've got some junk I need to address. and be, hopefully you start to have more compassion for yourself of like, wow, I have a lot of things going on. You know what my partner does too. And so I'm gonna give myself compassion for some of the ways I'm maybe a little screwed up and I'm gonna give them compassion. And hopefully what happens is that then the partner starts to notice, wow, you're a little bit happier, you're a little bit more laid back. You're not heartbeat on me so much. You're not nitpicking about these things. That Enneagram thing you've been doing that, that kind of has some power. That's so interesting. another really easy way is. A book I often teach from is called The Road Back to You by Ian Morgan Kron and Suzanne Stabile. And, if you read through it and you really can tell your type and or if, even if you can tell your partner's, type, give this, give that chapter to your partner and say, Hey, I've just figured out about myself. Here's basically a user's manual or instruction manual of how I operate. Why don't you read this and tell me if you think any of this resonates? And the chances are they'll read that chapter and they'll, they'll say, oh my gosh, that's totally you, and that's a great starting point. And just keep the focus on yourself. And hopefully, eventually, maybe your partner will start flipping through the book themselves and kind of say, oh gosh, this kind of resonates.

Hoyt 41:31

Well, that's great advice. And I'll, I'll put the link there for this book into the show notes so that people can, find that online. you know, I keep going back to this conversation that we heard from Rachel and what impressed me there was that she recognized that the behavior that her boyfriend was exhibiting. had some triggering, kind of emotional triggering for her, and that that was her first response and then it was curiosity, and then it was contextualizing with, oh, well that's, he's not that after me here. He's really curious and this is how he, how he works. So what are some other examples of how two types might, Be triggering emotional stuff with other people where that could be disconnected with understanding the Enneagram.

Emily 42:26

Oh yes. Yeah. well, what I loved about what Rachel shared is that she had enough self-awareness. Not just to say, why are you asking all these questions, but to say, wow, I am feeling triggered by this of, you know, it is making me doubt and question and make me feels like, makes me feel like you don't trust me. So she was able to say, Not, just don't do that, but to say, this is what it's bringing up in me. And so that's kind of that self-awareness we're looking for within both people. Um, but there are lots of things of, uh, for instance, Enneagram eights, they actually have something called conflictual intimacy where they, they feel like, you know, if we can kind of spar and like really wrestle out a problem, like, wow, we're really. Both engaged and feeling close to each other for an Enneagram nine that literally is their worst nightmare. Like conflict. Avoiding conflict is love to me, not, I'm joking. That's it. I've grown to realize that there is, uh, conflict is, or that standing up for your opinions or thoughts is necessary. But, so yes, it's just being aware. Um, I'm trying to think of other different situations, but, you know. Okay. Perfect example. And Enneagram six. Who's kind of thinking of the worst case scenarios. They think it's loving to bring up all the possible ways something could go wrong, because that's love to them is, I'm trying to help you avoid making these mistakes on Enneagram seven or many other types is gonna experience that as why are you so pessimistic? Why are you just trying to poke holes in my plant? Why can't you just let me be excited about something? The six really does think they're being caring by doing it that way because they think, well, if I can see a way that something could go wrong, and I don't tell you that's not caring it, it's caring to tell you a way something could go wrong, but obviously other people experience that differently.

Hoyt 44:24

And that's gotta go all across The spectrum there, right? and when you start to look at those things, understanding your own Enneagram, clearly you're identifying sort of aspirationally with all of these positive qualities that exist in every one of the nine types. But your triggers and your danger points are always in that other side of the coin, right? And so how do you coach people about, paying attention, not just to building on the strengths that you've got right? but understanding your weaknesses. So how do you coach people around that?

Emily 45:03

through coaching, part of what. People learn is, um, some of their sense keywords or sensitivities. And so just already having, oh, wow. Boundaries are a big thing for me. Autonomy, respect or safety? Security. So already being able to have certain words that you learn, oh, that is a big think for me. so that is already kind of almost a cheat sheet, and then we are able to talk through, okay, so. When you feel like your boundaries are crossed and you're experiencing anger, you know, first of all, now you know these words. To be able to say or to be able to know, Hey, when I'm starting to feel anger about something, I'm gonna just run through this checklist. Was it because my boundaries were crossed? 'cause I didn't feel respected. 'cause I didn't feel like I got the autonomy I wanted because I felt out of control. Oh, you know what it, I was feeling out of control. I was feeling like things were going too fast, and so I started to feel anger. I snapped at that person. And so, I mean, honestly, so much of this is just awareness because once you're aware of something, you're like, oh, well I can now have a choice the next time that kind of thing happens. Um, so yeah, it's the awareness and then also talking through, so what are some other options you have within when that type of setting comes up, what are some other options? And once people are able to run through their own options for themselves, um, You know, then they can choose to do something differently the next time.

Hoyt 46:32

So Emily, for a lot of people, just a, a basic understanding and walking through the resources, listening to some of the podcasts that are out there, obviously taking the test gives them a good path to go forward. Where does it make sense for someone to really go in depth on it like you do with your teaching program and your coaching program? So if I'm listening to this podcast, what would be the things that would tell me, oh, I should really dig into this with some professional help.

Emily 47:06

Really just if you're interested, meaning if you are in a space where you're open of, Hey, that kind of sounds interesting to me, that's the time to jump in another time. People often reach out to me is when they're in pain because. When they have finally caught on, Hey, you know what? This situation has happened again and again and again, and I'm the common denominator. Not saying it's that person's fault exactly, but the only person we can control is ourselves. So if you're in enough pain where you're saying, I don't like the situation I'm in, I'm tired of being in this situation either. For a long time, or this is the fifth time it's happened, that's when you wanna start looking inward and saying, how am I contributing to this? And what are my choices of how I can behave differently? How can I gain more self-awareness? And then how can I behave differently in future situations? And that exact thing is what will help people, to kind really change the trajectory of their lives.

Hoyt 48:07

Well, Emily, I've so enjoyed having you here. I just learned a whole lot today. So thank you so much for doing this. But before we go tell people how they can find you online and on your, on your website.

Emily 48:19

yes. So my website or my business name as well is Enneagram with Emily, so I'll spell that out. E N N E A G R A M with Emily. Com they can find me there. I'm on, um, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn as well. But especially going to my website. I have an example of a coaching session. I have, uh, tell about why the Enneagram is so powerful. Uh, few other bits of information. I also have lots of videos, that I like to share. and I also offer free 30 minute discovery calls, so I am happy to talk to any of your listeners, just if they're curious about learning more. Had a few questions. I'm always happy to talk about this kind of thing.

Hoyt 49:04

Well, this has been so informative and I really appreciate your taking some time to. Help us understand that even though there isn't a cheat code, that gives you a shortcut to a great relationship if you do the work, you can get

Emily 49:17

Yes. Great point. Yeah, it's worth the work. It, it will benefit every aspect of your life.

Hoyt 49:23

Emily, thank you so much.

Emily 49:24

you.

Hoyt 49:27

Well, today's episode was a new introduction to the Enneagram personality types for you, or just a refresher. I hope you found it as informative and inspirational as I did. You see. It's not really about this tool or that this shortcut or that. It's really about knowing yourself. And having compassion for yourself. This self knowledge and self compassion. When fully embraced and internalized. Becomes a kind of super power in your dating life. It can make you almost immune to the sometimes toxic behaviors of others online. It can give you the calm confidence to selectively risk emotional vulnerability. With the full knowledge that at worst. You've cast proverbial pearls before swine. But maybe just maybe. That risk will be reciprocated. And that's a beautiful thing. It's not the power of the Enneagram or any other tool. That's the source of this superpower. It's you? It's the choices you make about how you show up in the world. And the path to better choices starts with knowing and loving yourself. Thanks for joining us today on behind this white. We'll see you next week with another episode. Until then. Swipe fearlessly.